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I still work mainly for hourly rate, for a lot of my regular customers I don't even know how I would go about charging a fixed price. For one off jobs it's a bit easier but I'm still not great on working out how long a job will take, and therefore giving a quote that doesn't undersell myself or seem too steep if I power through a job in no time at all.
Hi,
I've been running my garden maintenance business for over 22 years, I have always put a price in rather than an hourly rate there are times of the year when you have to work that bit harder and times you can glide through the gardens it's swing's and roundabout's at the end of the day, just make sure that you put in a fair price to cover your overheads fuel, waste, public liability insurance etc, if the garden is all in good shape and you are totally professional I can't see the customer having an issue at the end of the day running a garden business is about making a profit otherwise sticking to a basic hourly rate is not going to earn you million's and you would be better off working for a garden firm with out the hassle's believe me that's the only way to be successful in this type of work. Good luck
I have worked the price out on many 'fixed price jobs' i have done after.
At a fair hourly rate it has always worked out the same for me given the time taken for the job.
Even discounting waste away, time to empty trailer , travelling time in an overall price or splitting it up inc different hourly rates for various skilled/unskilled staff & adding waste costs fairly.
I always have to check certain jobs - and im always amazed it adds up the same total 3 ways.
It goes to show jobs are 'NOT ABOUT PRICE', as it always takes the same time to do a good job and decent materials/vehicles/staff to get it done reliably and well !!!
So if ANYONE asks you ; say what ive said to clients before ' it's not about the price , as im sure many a tradesmen has said unto you ?!
Enzo's got it entirely correct above.
It's an old-fashioned way to charge, and it's not good for the customers. Once you explain this, they generally see the benefit to them. Some won't, and some jobs might be better charged hourly if they are unknowns, but most clients are happy to save money!
It's as simple as this. Your lawn will take me 2 hours to cut with a cheap mower, and I will charge you 2 hours money. If I invest in a bigger, better mower, I'm going to cut it in half the time, wouold you expect me to halve the fee? No, as I'd be out of pocket.
It's in my best interest to have the best equipment, and therefore the fastest, most efficient speed of work, so I fit more jobs in. But if you pay me hourly, I'll have to work more slowly, or be losing money. Why should I spend £350 on a strimmer to edge the lawn, when using a hand-tool costing £20 means I take longer and therefore charge you more? It's insane!
So: that lawn takes 2 hours, and for the sake of argument you're on £25 per hour. The client therefore pays £50, you visit on average 25 times a year, that's £2000. Simply divide that by 12, they set up a standing order, or at least regular online payments. You invoice electronically, the amount is the same so it takes seconds, and costs nothing. In this case I'd also round it down, as it's a good contract and evens my income out, so perhaps £75 per month instead of the £83 it should be.
Now it's up to me what gear I buy or how long I take: I can up my efficiency and profit, but they pay the same monthly price regardless. So long as I keep the standard the same, and it's cheaper and more simple for them, what's not to like?
I like your reply above Paul a lot. So much so if you don't mind i may print it up on card and change the figures slightly as an example as to why i charge the way i do. Is this ok?
Know what you mean there Paul Unfortunately, most customers I have found will just calculate your hourly rate anyway from the time you're there. Like you , I would never contemplate stringing a job out by using inferior tools, equipment etc and I will always strive to get the most work possible done in the most efficient way and leave the site looking great...... if I didn't get the work done, the customer would never entertain me charging £20. Although I always say its £20/ visit..... I invariably make the visit an hour so I can plan the work so I get the most done in the time and leave it all looking good..... if I didn't do this, I'd never know when to stop as everyone knows, there's always something more that can be done in a garden. So I work things out on an hourly basis...... I enjoy the work and it really is an excellent income for a manual job (I know people are always up in arms about that but I try and be realistic about this, skilled as it is lol!!)
Paul McNulty said:
Andrew, feel free. It's t'internet, so if someone say it it must be true, and you're free to cut-and-paste it to your heart's content!
Geoff, I totally understand that some customers will calculate your rate from the time you're there. And, that's why they employ slow workers, with no skills or equipment, and end up paying more....
Let's face up to it: this isn't about quality or pride, it's about who's paying who. You are in danger of funding equipment that makes you do more work in an hour, but the client pays you the same? That makes no sense to anyone, except the client who ends up quids in. Do you charge the same hourly rate arriving with a 21" pro-roller worth £1200, needing perhaps £400 per year in fuel and servicing, as using the client's own Flymo plugged in to their electricity? Of course not. Or, at least, I hope not.
Real-life example here, with real costs. I once cut a hedge, side and half the top. Took me three hours all-in, and I charged £120. Seems great? But, that involved a van, platform ladder, trailer, insurance, waste license and tipping costs of at least minimum load, regular and long-reach hedge cutters, a blower, it all adds up to a LOT of kit. The neighbours had their side done by two guys in a car, who used the householder's electric hedge cutter, their extension lead and step ladder, their broom. The clients supplied bags, and had to do repeated trips to the tip with the rubbish. I went round and blew the clippings from their drive myself as it was a mess (conifer hedge, gravel drive and no tarpaulin?), as I always blow under the hedge rather than leave half the debris sat there, so they asked me to quote for their side next year as well.
They paid £14 per hour to the idiots to do the job. 2 men, most of the day, ended up at nearly £200. No rubbish taken away, no overheads, no training or skills, no tools?
Guess what they said to me? You're much better than them, but £120 is too much for 3 hour's work. We'll use them again next year as they're cheaper. :-(
You can't, and shouldn't, work for anyone who has that attitude. They'd pay more for the total job to con-men, than me? That's where hourly-rates lead you: you are competing with the lowest-cost operations, and hurting your own business, yet the client isn't getting the best value either.
I'm prepared to work for less for people who are in genuine need, it's part of living in a society, and not being a big business. I don't, however, mistake the pensioner with half a million of equity in their house, who wants me to work like a bob-a-job scout, as "needy"! Clients should appreciate that your costs are variable, depending on the level of overheads you carry around, but it should cost them LESS to employ you on a contract, not on an hourly rate?
Hi Chris,
I don't have a "standard" contract. I'm a small business, and I have to deal with so many variables I write a unique set of terms, specifications etc., for each job. As they are usually long-term, perhaps three years minimum, I am happy to spend 5 minutes on an email to guarantee I cover anything I feel is likely to be an issue.
I have some standard things I include, like payment terms, but I'm very anal about putting everything I can think of in the first agreement. I would never specify a number of visits per year, as it's weather-dependant. For instance, I've visited one contract today for the first time since November, as their access is through a field that was under water. If I'd specified a certain number of visits i'd be screwed, but as it stands it's just up to me to do a lot of extra hours now to catch up!
Geoff, I hope you realise that my previous post wasn't aimed at you! I was talking about people who take £10K of van and equipment to a job, and the client expects them to pay them the same hourly rate as the guys with no overheads despite doing twice the work in the time, not you of course.....
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