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With staff costs spiralling I need to look at this again. I think I would prefer employed staff . Self employed guys need to fulfil HMRC regulations  I think this could be done. I wondered what other people thought. Do you employ your guys or do you use self employed? 

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  • you may think it can be done but hmrc are very very tight on it! depends how long you are employing them and how you are employing them as to whats best. personally I prefer employed staff as I have full control on all aspects of them and it makes planning a lot simpler, despite all the responsibilities

    • PRO

      +1 for all those reasons and more :) accepting that occasionally "subbing out" may suit a short term need...

  • PRO

    If you're SE and you have more than either 1/4 or 1/3 of your income from one source (i.e. subbying to one company) then you're not self employed in HMRC's eyes you're employed. When HMRC find that out they'll come looking for the employer to claim back all the NI owed plus assocciated costs.

  • Also be careful in how you use sub-contractors! Often, people will assume they don't need employers' liability for their subbies, but if they're labour-only (under your instruction, using your tools and materials etc) then the HMRC will still consider them employees.

    If you use bona-fide sub-contractors (external firm who send any one of their employees, using their own tools, under their own company name etc) then you won't need employers' liability.

    Hope that helps, and good luck with whatever you decide to do :)

  • Can of worms!  There are plenty who just don't worry about it, but I can't be dealing with the worry of getting a tug from the HMRC, who could go back 6 years and it can be VERY expensive.  We have full timers and very occasionally will sub out work.

  • PRO

    Remember if you employ. Or self employ if they work for you mainly you are demmed to employ them full time and you are therefore liable for there Ni and Paye 

    either way your stuck 


  • PRO

    Retired last year... but I always went the PAYE route. The guy that bought the business made me make all staff redundant, he then put them on self-employed.

    The schedule went to pot... no set 8:00am on site anymore, the standard of care went down. Should people find a more interesting things to do, there is no notice period... the last one of my people just left him the other week, with no notice. THen youve got the very real risk that there will be no liability insurance/right PPE etc etc.

    So another major vote for do it the PAYE route

  • After 40 years in the trade. We've done both, both scenarios have their problems.  Trying to attract committed,  knowledgeable employees  even when paying salaries in excess of market rates is problematic, seems to be a general malaise of lack of motivation not turning up on time or not at all with the inevitable problems that causes to a business. 

    This along with onerous employment legislation,  workplace pensions, employers NI costs, holiday pay and sick pay made it inevitable for us to use only self employed. We ensure they have their own liability insurance, issue bona fide invoices and use their own equipment and vehicles. It works for us ,we have motivated staff who know if the quality, timekeeping and reliability isn't there they won't work for us again.  We've built a team of self employed that can be relied on.

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