When is the time right to employ someone?!

I have got to the stage where i am running out of free hours in the day to do all my work.

If i take on one more contract then work is going to be EXTREMELY hard and i am thinking that sooner or later the time will come where i need to employ someone.
This is a world that i know absolutely nothing of!

My objective when starting my grounds maintenance business was always to get to a stage where i can employ somebody, then in time employ someone else and then in time come off tools and concerntrate on obtaining more work so i can employ more people. This always has been my dream in a strange sort of way!

Well three years after starting i think i may need somebody soon. I can go on working on my own. (working sat and sundays) but i dont want to work all weekends as i think its important to spend time with my young family. I can also decide to just keep working harder but sooner or later standards will undoubtely slip and i will just get tired all the time etc etc

How did you come to the conclusion that it was the right time to employ someone? Was it that you were very busy? Did you come to the decision based on turnover going up alot? Was it because you thought standards may in time slip?

My next question is WHO do i employ and on a part time or full time basis?

I have two sides to this. I can employ a youngish person, train them to my standards and how i work, try and look after them and hopefully they will provide me with hard work and loyalty.

I have always found that employing younger people is a risk due to unreliability etc (hell im only 26!!) But surely a younger person would be slightly cheaper than someone who is more mature.

The other side of it is try and employ a more mature person. I know of a few older blokes than me that are good workers, trustworthy and loyal! I know you can get people of any age who you cant trust etc but ive always found people with responsibilities (family, mortgage etc) the more trustworthy person as they need to pay their bills etc to provide for their family.

My main aim from employing someone is that they can run the day to day of work when i am not availible. (holidays, meetings etc)

My worry of employing someone is that, IF i lost a contract or two and then could not afford to employ someone anymore then i dont want that person being without work and also to make someone redundant these days surely costs an arm and a leg!!

I dont think for a minute i would lose any work(fingers crossed!!!) but its still a worry.

My thinking is if i employ someone then things will get better and better, more time to spend on obtaining more work, training someone in the mean time, and standards improving!

Thanks for reading!!

Steve

Hi again Dan

I just wanted to respond to the desk job point you made at the end. No i dont want to sit behind a desk at all! But i would like to be in the position to be able to leave people on sites if i need to, or if i need time off i know i can leave them on site. If i can trust them to be on site then i can concerntrate on building other sides of the business.

Although i love being on the tools, i also like going out to meetings, and obtaining work. Theres a real sense of satisfaction when you get a new contract!

Steve www.soniclandscaping.co.uk said:

Hi Dan

I spoke to my accountant about if someone earns less than £100 per week etc. I had a part timer last year and was very unreliable! Which i suppose it worries me a tad.

Full time is my preference too, i want somebody who wants to workk hard, and also has a reason to work. (responsibilitys)

I can afford to be a bit poorer for a while. Since April ive taken on enough work to cover at least half of someones monthly wages, so ive got to cover the other half, but my thinking is that standards will improve and will free time up for me get new contracts on, so i think in time i will get that outlay back.

Just to clarify, i dont work 7 days a week. My point was that i dont want to get to the stage where i work 7 days a week! I have a young family and i want to have a seperate life from my business.

What is the NMW now? And if someone worked a 40 hour week, how much would that cost me?

Some really good points there Dan re contracts etc

thanks alot

Dan Frazer Gardening said:

One thing to make sure you are clear on - if you employ someone on a contract and there suddenly becomes no work for them, you CAN make them redundant with only o/s holiday pay and notice period pay, no arm and leg stuff, so don't worry about that.

I think you should look at as full time as you can as you're more likely to get someone reliable who needs the work and wants to stick at it. Follow your instincts at interview, get a contract with all the necessary clauses and make sure they sign it, get the forms if they are going to be earning more than £100 or so a week; less than this and you don't need to do the paye forms, just put it through as expenses.

Decide if you can afford to be a fair bit poorer for a while, balance this against you suddenly having a life again (working 7 days? Crazy!), consider paying above NMW if you can and always have a trial period for any new staff.

Are you really looking for a desk job at the end of it all?

Replies

Dan Frazer Gardening July 7, 2011 at 6:25pm

One thing to make sure you are clear on - if you employ someone on a contract and there suddenly becomes no work for them, you CAN make them redundant with only o/s holiday pay and notice period pay, no arm and leg stuff, so don't worry about that.

I think you should look at as full time as you can as you're more likely to get someone reliable who needs the work and wants to stick at it. Follow your instincts at interview, get a contract with all the necessary clauses and make sure they sign it, get the forms if they are going to be earning more than £100 or so a week; less than this and you don't need to do the paye forms, just put it through as expenses.

Decide if you can afford to be a fair bit poorer for a while, balance this against you suddenly having a life again (working 7 days? Crazy!), consider paying above NMW if you can and always have a trial period for any new staff.

Are you really looking for a desk job at the end of it all?
Steve Sonic Grounds Maintenance July 7, 2011 at 6:47pm

Hi Dan

I spoke to my accountant about if someone earns less than £100 per week etc. I had a part timer last year and was very unreliable! Which i suppose it worries me a tad.

Full time is my preference too, i want somebody who wants to workk hard, and also has a reason to work. (responsibilitys)

I can afford to be a bit poorer for a while. Since April ive taken on enough work to cover at least half of someones monthly wages, so ive got to cover the other half, but my thinking is that standards will improve and will free time up for me get new contracts on, so i think in time i will get that outlay back.

Just to clarify, i dont work 7 days a week. My point was that i dont want to get to the stage where i work 7 days a week! I have a young family and i want to have a seperate life from my business.

What is the NMW now? And if someone worked a 40 hour week, how much would that cost me?

Some really good points there Dan re contracts etc

thanks alot

Dan Frazer Gardening said:

One thing to make sure you are clear on - if you employ someone on a contract and there suddenly becomes no work for them, you CAN make them redundant with only o/s holiday pay and notice period pay, no arm and leg stuff, so don't worry about that.

I think you should look at as full time as you can as you're more likely to get someone reliable who needs the work and wants to stick at it. Follow your instincts at interview, get a contract with all the necessary clauses and make sure they sign it, get the forms if they are going to be earning more than £100 or so a week; less than this and you don't need to do the paye forms, just put it through as expenses.

Decide if you can afford to be a fair bit poorer for a while, balance this against you suddenly having a life again (working 7 days? Crazy!), consider paying above NMW if you can and always have a trial period for any new staff.

Are you really looking for a desk job at the end of it all?
Dan Frazer Gardening July 7, 2011 at 6:58pm

My fiance is an HR officer so I get all the latest goss from employment law and she keeps me right!

She is starting up her own consultancy business and will be able to draw up HR policies, contracts, offer advice and check documents for small fees if anyone ever wants anything formal.

I have a man one day per week. I have a half day every second friday which I have been filling with one-off work all season so far but I have drawn a line under that and am taking that half day to recoup and do some admin if needed. I can pay someone a fair day wage with this system. I am chasing a few large contracts and each one will let me take on a man for another day per week from March-November; this is how I am organising things. Having my weekends free plus this half day every second Friday means if I struggle to find someone in time I can at least cope on my own short term.
Chris Auld July 7, 2011 at 8:22pm

Hi Steve, i was in a similar situation to you, im 27 and have been in business since spring 2008. Up until march of this year i just hired part time, casual, unskilled labourers and paid them minimum wage. These guys were ok at the basic stuff (raking up leaves, digging, occasionally using a hedgetrimmer) but they required constant supervision, i couldn't just drop them off somewhere and expect them to know what to do. They were also quite unreliable and would regularly take days off for other commitments. But what can you expect for minimum wage casual labour?

I now have 3 skilled, experienced guys working full time and 2 teams on the road every day, these guys are all good workers and perfectly capable of working on there own. Sure, i have to pay them a bit more and all the paperwork is a pain in the ass on a sunday afternoon but overall things have worked out really well. Nowdays i only employ people with at least 3 years experience in the landscaping/maintenance sector, no more casual labourers. My advice would be to take on a full time qualified worker and pay him a decent wage, it will be worth it in the long run.

Good luck.
Steve Sonic Grounds Maintenance July 7, 2011 at 8:26pm

Hi Chris thanks for the info.

Youve grown quite quickly well done!

I think ive got to bite the bullet and just go for it. I am a very careful person and always research things until im blue in the face! But i think this is the only way if im going to grow my business!

I am thinking to go for a more mature person as i think they will want to work more?

Chris Auld said:

Hi Steve, i was in a similar situation to you, im 27 and have been in business since spring 2008. Up until march of this year i just hired part time, casual, unskilled labourers and paid them minimum wage. These guys were ok at the basic stuff (raking up leaves, digging, occasionally using a hedgetrimmer) but they required constant supervision, i couldn't just drop them off somewhere and expect them to know what to do. They were also quite unreliable and would regularly take days off for other commitments. But what can you expect for minimum wage casual labour?

I now have 3 skilled, experienced guys working full time and 2 teams on the road every day, these guys are all good workers and perfectly capable of working on there own. Sure, i have to pay them a bit more and all the paperwork is a pain in the ass on a sunday afternoon but overall things have worked out really well. Nowdays i only employ people with at least 3 years experience in the landscaping/maintenance sector, no more casual labourers. My advice would be to take on a full time qualified worker and pay him a decent wage, it will be worth it in the long run.

Good luck.
Steve Sonic Grounds Maintenance July 7, 2011 at 8:29pm

Hi again Dan

I just wanted to respond to the desk job point you made at the end. No i dont want to sit behind a desk at all! But i would like to be in the position to be able to leave people on sites if i need to, or if i need time off i know i can leave them on site. If i can trust them to be on site then i can concerntrate on building other sides of the business.

Although i love being on the tools, i also like going out to meetings, and obtaining work. Theres a real sense of satisfaction when you get a new contract!

Steve www.soniclandscaping.co.uk said:

Hi Dan

I spoke to my accountant about if someone earns less than £100 per week etc. I had a part timer last year and was very unreliable! Which i suppose it worries me a tad.

Full time is my preference too, i want somebody who wants to workk hard, and also has a reason to work. (responsibilitys)

I can afford to be a bit poorer for a while. Since April ive taken on enough work to cover at least half of someones monthly wages, so ive got to cover the other half, but my thinking is that standards will improve and will free time up for me get new contracts on, so i think in time i will get that outlay back.

Just to clarify, i dont work 7 days a week. My point was that i dont want to get to the stage where i work 7 days a week! I have a young family and i want to have a seperate life from my business.

What is the NMW now? And if someone worked a 40 hour week, how much would that cost me?

Some really good points there Dan re contracts etc

thanks alot

Dan Frazer Gardening said:

One thing to make sure you are clear on - if you employ someone on a contract and there suddenly becomes no work for them, you CAN make them redundant with only o/s holiday pay and notice period pay, no arm and leg stuff, so don't worry about that.

I think you should look at as full time as you can as you're more likely to get someone reliable who needs the work and wants to stick at it. Follow your instincts at interview, get a contract with all the necessary clauses and make sure they sign it, get the forms if they are going to be earning more than £100 or so a week; less than this and you don't need to do the paye forms, just put it through as expenses.

Decide if you can afford to be a fair bit poorer for a while, balance this against you suddenly having a life again (working 7 days? Crazy!), consider paying above NMW if you can and always have a trial period for any new staff.

Are you really looking for a desk job at the end of it all?
Colin Hunt July 8, 2011 at 5:37pm

You are at the stage I was at your age. It really is quite strange how once you have taken the plunge, it isnt too long before you wonder how you managed to cover the work previously. Go for it, when we started I also had a young family and I promised my wife that if I couldnt earn a decent wage working 5 days a week, I would pack it in.

I have kept that promise, working a strict 7.30-5.00 and no weekends - its too easy to still be grafting when you should be at home re-charging the batteries, on the golf course or cricket pitch!

With an extra pair of hands you will cover more work, which will bring more leads and so on.

On the other tack, I have taken on inexperienced 16-17 year olds, found some brilliant that learn quickly and some that need 'moving on' sharpish. We have also taken 'experienced' men and found exactly the same situation! You pays your money and takes your chance!
Cesare Harradine July 11, 2011 at 8:26pm

I am watching this discussion with interest.

I am in a position where I might have to employ someone due to a back injury slowing me down.

I have lots of enquiries which I can't follow up because I'm too busy or can't do because of my back.

My problem is that, for a time, I won't be earning enough after paying a wage.
James Wells July 11, 2011 at 8:44pm

Third time lucky replying to this thread, not very experienced with this forum yet!!And every reply has been different!

I am in the same position Steve, the idea of employing someone crosses my mind ever single day. I have no doubt I have enough work for them now, easily. I mainly stick to maintenance.

I guess the main thing stopping me is myself and the idea that I am not going the find the right person, i 'll have to let them go.. I don't like the idea of disappointing people.

Spoke with another gardener last week and he basically employs / sub contracts to blokes who are self employed themselves. Seems to have them for 5 days a week though , March to Nov. Sounds great if you can find the right guys who are willing to do this for what he pays £200 p/w. So when the works there he uses them, when its not he has no overheads, cos they are self employed..

One thing that struck me when reading the threads was all the talk of contracts. I have quite a few large maintenance jobs, had them for years, but I have nothing in writing. Is this naive? i basically invoice for each bit of work. I do not see this as being a barrier to why I have not expanded, but maybe it would be nice to have some aspect of security from some of these large jobs that I have built up.

Am I right in thinking that you get most jobs "signed up" with some form of legal document?

Sorry this might be a completly different thread.

Go for it Steve and let me know how you get on. I reckon I will see this year out and plan for expansion in March/ April 2012.
Steve Sonic Grounds Maintenance July 11, 2011 at 9:09pm

HI colin

Yes totally agree, i totally believe employing someone will bring in more leads due to a number of reasons, i have asked a few associates that if they can think of anyone that would fit the bill to let me know>
I need someone by September as i am going away for a few days!!!!

Still no matter how much i know i need more hands on site, i still cant bring my self to actually take the next step!! Its quite a bit steo IMO.

Colin Hunt said:

You are at the stage I was at your age. It really is quite strange how once you have taken the plunge, it isnt too long before you wonder how you managed to cover the work previously. Go for it, when we started I also had a young family and I promised my wife that if I couldnt earn a decent wage working 5 days a week, I would pack it in.

I have kept that promise, working a strict 7.30-5.00 and no weekends - its too easy to still be grafting when you should be at home re-charging the batteries, on the golf course or cricket pitch!

With an extra pair of hands you will cover more work, which will bring more leads and so on.

On the other tack, I have taken on inexperienced 16-17 year olds, found some brilliant that learn quickly and some that need 'moving on' sharpish. We have also taken 'experienced' men and found exactly the same situation! You pays your money and takes your chance!