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  Phil Voice May 5, 2009 at 10:06pm

  Thanks Colin
  
  Your theory did cross my mind but I am still a little perplexed that this is the only clump with the lighter shades growing alongside. I will see if the clump I lifted reverts next year or stays true.
  
  All the best
  
  
  Phil
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  pete May 5, 2009 at 10:08pm

  Phil, I've got this disturbing image of you skipping through crimson and clover, playing with the butterflies - (while some of us are mauling slabs and digging tree stumps) - but if no-one comes up with an answer for you and it turns out you've found something new I remember when I was at college and stuck my hand up to tell them about a bit of celandine that Christopher Lloyd said he had found in a hedge bottom, it had got instead of the usual green, - a bronze leaf - he subsequentially introduced it as "Brazen Hussy" - I don't know how these things work but I guess he made a few shillings off it. The lecturer, as I remember, thought I was trying to wind him up.
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  Phil Voice May 5, 2009 at 10:13pm

  Hi Pete
  
  Yes it has been a bit of a surreal day - especially with the nettle soup for lunch:-))
  
  I got to Know Peter Catt quite well and did a fair bit of work for the Liss Forest and Baldwins nurseries.
  Peter has made a small fortune after discovering the Choisya ternata 'Sundance' - these are everywhere now.
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  Phil Voice May 5, 2009 at 10:42pm

  I have been doing a little research and I wonder if this is in fact Trifolium medium?
  The leaves are different - much more slender and lancolate.
  
  Any thoughts?
  
  http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/pictures/showphoto.php/photo/71604
  
  http://www.plant-identification.co.uk/skye/leguminosae/trifolium-me...
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  Helen Nock May 5, 2009 at 11:18pm

  It looks like the species that helped itself to my garden shortly after we installed a large rabbit run. It's spread itself generously in several dark and luscious clumps and I love it. I assumed just red clover and didn't realise two distinct forms.....now I know.
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  GardeningAngel May 5, 2009 at 11:24pm

  I don't know about the trifolium, but I also had some contact with Peter Catt in the 1980's, in fact I had a bit of a 'crush' on one of his sons called Vincent if I remember rightly - Choisya Sundance was in fact a new introduction of 'Liss Forest Nurseries' and I was manager of the planteria of the Gloucestershire branch of Hurrans Garden Centres at the time. We had a departmental visit to the nurseries and they couldn't churn 'Sundance' out quick enough, to the extent that there was (to me) an obvious red spider mite problem in their tunnels, and subsequently in the stock that was sent out. No hard feelings though, I've just completed an amenity project and, lo and behold, I have found myself putting a few of them in - even though I can't STAND yellow! wonder what Vincent is doing now........................................................................
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  pete May 5, 2009 at 11:46pm

  they couldn't churn 'Sundance' out quick enough ---- Yes, Choisya Sundance - never done it for me.
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  Phil Voice May 6, 2009 at 6:42am

  Isn't it a small world :-0)
  
  Vince and I were next door neighbours in our bachelor days - both single with our own house.
  Vince had bought the house of his brother Neil and I remember that the back garden was full of Liss Forest Nursery stock:-))
  
  The great thing for me (because we only had three strands of plain wire between us) was I could enjoy his garden as much as he could without having to worry about the weeding and watering.
  
  I understand that Vince is now in charge of the nursery as Peter has (semi) retired - he must be seventy plus but will always be striking cuttings. and propagating something.
  
  In about 1988 I cleared some long grass around some stock beds in Hatch lane (now looks like the shrubs are well matured) that had become overgrown with grass. I met Peter at the site and we walked around and he started rattling off their names. He said that he didn't expect me to know what was in there but please be careful with the strimmer because they were valuable specimens.
  
  I was at Merrist Wood (Guildford) at the time and I think I impressed him with my ident. though (I really loved going up there because of the plants and the solitude.
  
  Peter had a brother called Tony who owned Shrublands Nursery. You could never have had two more different characters. Tony had once made a killing out of mail order conifers, and also large container and rootballed conifers and trees.
  
  I really loved going in there too. Tony had lost interest and control after the recession and the conifer market dried up when builders and self build went belly up.
  
  The place became very neglected and the sales area (as piece of flat ground on the pure sandy soil with a membrane on it) diminished in size.
  
  Follow the link to the Google map and you can still clearly see many of the large conifers that are dotted around. The site looks like it has been cleaned up too.
  
  Tony sadly died and it was left to his son Damon to carry on bud he neither had the same plantsman skills nor the enthusiasm of his dad and was clearly lost and the place just slowly died.
  
  I used to love walking around and see what was once saleable stock that had matured (clearly too large to lift now). Because very few people walked around the place it was like walking through your very own time warp.