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What about for cash ?.....:)
cash, cheque, shouldnt really make a difference, plus i bet none of them trades above charge by the hour! Yet its the first thing customers ask, how much do you charge per hour? All of our hidden expenses cant be justified charging per hour it frustrates me.
Simple answer - you shouldn't! If a customer tries it on with me I always say 'my price is X and if you would like me to do Y, I can do it on Z'. If still persists, I won't do the work. Let them negotiate with another mug.
To be honest, we negotiated with pretty much every trade on both a large extension at the last house, and a full refurb on the current one. From ways to cut costs by simplifying things, or just asking for a better price on materials etc.
Why are the British so afraid to haggle? The rest of the world does it! I go in at least 20% over on quotes when I am dealing with cultures that I know will haggle on principle, and hope to come out about where I wanted to be in the first place.
Put it another way. When did you last go to a builder's merchant and pay the full displayed price? We all expect to negotiate a rate for trade, or larger quantities?
paul said 'From ways to cut costs by simplifying things, or just asking for a better price on materials etc.'
but not labour? got what you paid for in the end .. ?
Gardens4u.co.uk said:
I think it's a given that most companies open with a price they would expect to be no more than a starting-point? From Del-Boy on the market stall, to your mobile contract at renewal time, they all negotiate to some extent. Even a fixed-price business, like your supermarket, actually reward loyalty with discounts in the form of petrol vouchers, clubcard discounts etc.
Our electrician worked on a fixed £75 per item. When re-wiring a whole house, that's not cost-efficient to me, but VERY profitable to him, as we wanted extra lights and sockets everywhere. We could have halved the number of units, but then be short of sockets for evermore. What we did was say we want 40 downlights in the open plan area, 16 double sockets in the kitchen, that sort of thing. We negotiated a much-reduced total, probably about half, in the end.
The electrician didn't lose out. Let's be honest: fitting 10 new lights on a completely new circuit, in a stripped house, is no more labour-intensive than fitting 8, and the cost of the lights is a couple of pounds each trade. Maybe 10 minutes and £5 cost to him, but those two extra lights would have been £150 if we'd agreed to the fixed rate originally quoted.
I think there's a difference between agreeing a discount that suits me, such as immediate payment, two jobs next door to each other, that sort of thing, and agreeing to cut your rate to a point where you have to cut corners.
You'd expect to pay less per unit for 10,000 turfs, than for 10? Less for 20 metres of loose topsoil than buying it in bags, less for a 5 litre trade Glyphosate than 5 litres of domestic Roundup. Why not expect to pay the plumber less to do a whole day, than 8-times his hourly call-out rate? I'd always work a full day for a bit less, rather than take on 8 small jobs miles apart: I earn more overall, and the client is happy that they've got a discount.
Agree £ for service and never charge by the hour - its bad business for the small business as most customers who do not understand business only equate the £ in the hour to their own mindset on a wage, and ignor the fact you need £15ph to make minimum wage,, and self employed for that little? Only a fool would be! no holiday or sick pay and earning the same as a basic shop job.
Always sell a service not your time - otherwise why do you turn up with a £1k mower, £1k of hedge cutting gear, £500 strimmer, so on and so forth when you could use a £200 cheapo mower, and take 3x as long to do the lawn, but if the customer pays the clock, then your incentivised to under invest, be inefficient and everyone looses out.
trade is different i agree.
so what about your mechanic ? its £47 an hr plus v.a.t - yes?
does he allow you to knock him down?
(not many sticking up for our business here ....) i agree a bit of discount on day rate as opposed to an hour and on a regular or a huge job to win it of course.
but being knocked 'down' on a price once given , no other tradesmen will reduce it per se'.
Gardens4u.co.uk said:
Mechanics? Just try using a car forum! There are millions of discussions on whether you need to use a main dealer or a specialist. Is the history worth the same when you come to sell?
What about supplying the service parts when your car goes in to a main dealer? My 25-year-old car would get over £100 of oil from a main dealer, probably £80 from a specialist, and £40 from Costco. Is it wrong to screw the dealer by supplying the same oil at my cost? Of course it is: they have to make a profit and marking up the parts is that profit.
If I go to an independant, their costs are far less, so they can charge less mark-up, or absorb me supplying the parts at my cost a bit more.
What I'm saying is that the modern access to prices we have through the internet, and of course the ability to trade people off against each other, means we traders just can't buy a "thing" for £10, and expect our clients not to know it's available for £10. We need to be careful to sell our costs when marking things up, and not use this as an easy profit any more.
You've used the hourly rate argument again. I just don't see hourly rates any more in most businesses? My machines are all serviced or repaired on a fixed price, and my vehicles are almost always on menu-pricing now. I just don't see the invoices with an hourly rate any more.
I can't agree with "a price once given , no other tradesmen will reduce it". In all my years of working in many different industries, pretty much EVERY price is open to negotiation. New car? Haggle. Wedding photos? Ask for a deal on extra albums. Tyres? is there a deal on buying all four? Gas supply, go to comparison sites. Mobile phone renewal, you will get a deal from your current supplier if you threaten to leave. Estate agents? You will easily chip them down from 2% to 1.5%.
Not knocking our business at all. I'm saying that we all need to be open to negotiating, and clients will expect it. Learn to go in a bit high, then you can offer a "better deal", or a "discount", so the client is happy?
well none of my mechanics (4 of)
electricians
builders
painter
carpenter
will go down on there quotes/ rates - maybe they just give there fair / best price and accept or reject as they are always busy. same as me i price to sell , so it save nonsense of haggling like a 1980's turkish street seller?
i get a price of £160 a day (electricians double) thats there price & they are all self-employed.
if u pay less - u get less. never got owt for nowt :)
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