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I can see a lot of people saying charge by the job and not the hour...
If you want a break, take a break.
If your energy level drops because you are suffering from fatigue chances are you will work slower.
If you charge by the hour then only bill the client for the hours worked. I must admit that I get a little uncomfortable when we are working on a job for an hourly rate and the client insist on bringing refreshments and stop to chat for 20 minutes so sometimes I have been known to knock a little off the bill as downtime.
Charging a fix price per job gets around this problem every time and if you want to to take time out it will only impact you and the time to complete the job in hand,
Around half the queries on these forums seem to point back to the same answer, I'm not going to repeat it again though! In this case I'd take unpaid breaks. Why should the client pay you to sit in the van?
Yes, I'm like that too Graeme............ inevitably, the customer brings out tea + biscuits, often wanting me to stop for a chat.... I quite like it though as you say, guilt sets in if you stop so I tend to carry on working a bit slower whilst sipping tea and chatting. Work shouldn't be about grafting 100% all the time lol. I don't honestly think I could stop for 30 minutes and still charge the customer for the time though............ mind you, most of my jobs are for a couple of hours so have a break as I travel between them.
Graeme @ BGS said:
The client needs to understand that, if you are paid by the hour, you are going to work as slowly as possible and always be looking over your shoulder for someone who's a bit cheaper.
If you are paid by the job, you are encouraged to buy the best gear, work as efficiently as you can, and do the best possible job as you want to keep the account.
I would never charge a client money for sitting in the van eating lunch, but I'd also not work 9 hours without a break. Let's say you're charging £20 per hour as an example: you've worked 9 hours, so £180, yet they are arguing over £10? That's not the way to enjoy a day's work. If you'd quoted £180 for the job there'd have been no issue with how long it took. If you'd quoted £180 for a day, and worked 9 hours with a break, they'd have been more than happy.
Hourly rates do make life difficult, as is seen from how often it comes up here!
I think it depends a lot on the type of job, if its a full day then a 15min to 30 min break is perfectly acceptable, if its pissing down and you take a 5 minute break taking shelter from the worst of it, why not. If its baking hot and sunny, then 10 minutes in the shade with a cold drink is a must in my opinion, this assumes of course that its more than a couple of hours on site each time.
Builders knock off during the day for lunch and no ones bats an eyelid, if your on site for a full day, are you not entitled to the same just because your a gardener!
it's embarrassing to be picked up on something like that as it's hard to justify charging for a lunch break to my mind. in general, an employee has tea breaks paid and lunch breaks unpaid.
when i'm charging by the hour i don't bill for a lunch break, but i do stop for tea whenever i feel like it or it's offered - but how long does it take to drink a cup of tea or munch a sandwich?
anyway, on an 8 hour day, if you up your rate by 6.25% you'll have covered your lunch break ;)
as for chatting to customers, it's part of the job, and i have no problem in billing the time spent chatting to them, nor to be honest, the time i might spend on my phone messaging or dealing with other work arrangements
For those jobs and clients that arent a full days work, it depends very much on the client IMO. OAPS for example think nothing of spending 5 - 10 mins chatting over a cup of T and a biscuit, sometimes more than once within a 2hr time slot, the garden is maintained to a high standard and they, and me to be honest have some social interaction, every ones happy. Other clients, you get a cup of T, 2 minute chat and its back to work, sipping T as you go. Ive never had anyone question a T break or a couple of mins on the phone dealing with another client or a new enquiry, lifes to short, and busy for that matter, if your clients are that tight, get some better ones!
Hi all
Thank you so much for all the opinions and information about how you deal with these situations. I think I have to definitely start charging by the job and am already trying to do so. It is a bit difficult for a beginner as one lacks the experience and wants to be competitive. Hopefully this will get better as time goes by.
Many thanks again.
All my work is regular and pretty much fixed, I charge X per day...I discuss with the customer what they want me to achieve for that day and tbh 9-10 that's achieved if lunch goes on 10 mins longer or less I'm not bothered and neither are they, I work all year for them they know what there outgoings are and I know what I'm going to earn, the jobs done as well as I can and all tools fuel and consumables are supplied by me....I've had all my customers since I started and have a great understanding of each other...so much so I now live in a cottage at one of my biggest customers!
Invest in equipment work hard be freindly and personable and you will build a great client bank who won't argue the toss with you as they will know your worth ;-)