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  Geoff Norfolk February 2, 2014 at 3:07pm

  I just keep one of those C&P 5 litre sprayers in the van all the time mixed up with glyphosate ready to go at each job as necessary...... in reality, very few people will get dressed up for a bit of spot-weed treatment.....
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  Andy Kenney February 2, 2014 at 3:33pm

  Same as Geoff for small domestic work.
• PRO

  Gary RK February 2, 2014 at 3:37pm

  Also depends on which gylphosate you plan to use as not all glyphosate are created "equal" - some require more 'protection' than others.

  Mixed Glyphos loses its efficiency if left too long (certainly if 'cooked' in a Van during the warm season).

  It's a judgement call as to how you deal with H&S, but just remember it can come back and bite you, certainly if on view to the general public or using adjacent to public areas. We do, to the best of our ability, adhere to H&S as we mostly deal with commercial sites.

  One option (and one we have taken..) is to use  Nomix CDA lances to apply. Removes most of the H&S issues...and costs little more than traditional 20l C&P sprayer & buying 5l containers. No waste, megre use of pesticde, no contamination...
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  Craig Spence And Hedges February 2, 2014 at 3:52pm

  Nomix is the way you need to go save you money in the end have a look at the site http://www.nomixenviro.co.uk/
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  Geoff Norfolk February 2, 2014 at 6:04pm

  Not wishing to doubt you here Gary but the Progreen site you refer to states that £85 of Nomix glyphosate will treat 2,000 sq. ms. whereas £60 of ordinary Roundup glyphosate will treat 10,000 sq. ms. which makes the Nomix roughly 7x more expensive. I appreciate that you don't have to mess about with large quantities of water which is a definite advantage. Never used the Nomix so please correct me if I'm wrong here..... seems like you have to run a special cleaner through the Nomix after use, you have to recharge it, looks tricky to accurately spot-treat say a dandelion growing immediately adjacent to a desirable plant..... is this correct?
  
  Gary RK said:

  Also depends on which gylphosate you plan to use as not all glyphosate are created "equal" - some require more 'protection' than others.

  Mixed Glyphos loses its efficiency if left too long (certainly if 'cooked' in a Van during the warm season).

  It's a judgement call as to how you deal with H&S, but just remember it can come back and bite you, certainly if on view to the general public or using adjacent to public areas. We do, to the best of our ability, adhere to H&S as we mostly deal with commercial sites.

  One option (and one we have taken..) is to use  Nomix CDA lances to apply. Removes most of the H&S issues...and costs little more than traditional 20l C&P sprayer & buying 5l containers. No waste, megre use of pesticde, no contamination...
• PRO

  Gary RK February 2, 2014 at 8:38pm

  Ok, here goes....

  1/ Yes, you run a special cleaner thru the lance if you change products or you do not plan on using for a while, but only use 10-15ml of cleaner at time. They are plug in, pull out containers.

  2/ You have to simply recharge 4 AA batteries in the supplied holder from your 12v cig lighter  One charge last 10hrs +

  3/ As easy to spot spray (if not easier) using the small disc applicator than a knapsack sprayer

  4/ Product wise, You "use" only what you use

  5/ My comparison is wrong, I meant to type 1L of Roundup (not 5L), which is the nearest amount you can buy to a Nomix container's worth.

  6/ As to costs/coverage, A little hint : read the Roundup Product Label or MDS

  7/ It's the only option if you wish to spray a residual on hard surfaces (which for us will cut down tremendously spraying at commercial sites)

  8/ Here's a little cost analysis from Sam Hassel's recent magazine article (based upon a labour rate of £19.50p/hr with no account for overheads/profit):

  I keep an open mind and actively look for solutions to reduce costs and improve what we do. Given the benefits that CDA or TDA's appear to give, many of the large grounds care businesses are seeing benefits from people correctly applying chemicals, reducing EA damage and not taking short cuts, so it's a no-brainer to try ? However, time (say, after a year's seasons) will ultimately show whether I/We made a good,cost effective choice. If not, I'll be along to say so...

  Finally, I struggle hearing people that have gone thru the training yet still do not follow the 'rules' of how to apply, what to wear and precautions to take. Bit like learning to play a game, and then abusing the rules. Why bother in the first place ?

  One footnote, I suppose: It is fair to assume that CDA lances may not be your first choice if you were blanket spraying a V large area....? Experience will tell
• PRO

  Robbie February 2, 2014 at 9:10pm

  I used them for the last 8-10 years on for the golf clubs I worked for, brilliant at what they do, you get a perfect round kill around trees ect.

  But I'm sure they stopped working at least once per season no matter how fussy I was at cleaning it.
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  Geoff Norfolk February 3, 2014 at 8:19am

  Thanks for the good comprehensive reply which must have taken some time...wasn't really considering the labour costs etc involved which must be considerable in a big operation like you run and I'm sure Nomix is a lot less hassle with no water required..... things are definitely simpler with the smaller domestic work where water is readily available etc and labour costs are less significant.
  
  Gary RK said:

  Ok, here goes....

  1/ Yes, you run a special cleaner thru the lance if you change products or you do not plan on using for a while, but only use 10-15ml of cleaner at time. They are plug in, pull out containers.

  2/ You have to simply recharge 4 AA batteries in the supplied holder from your 12v cig lighter  One charge last 10hrs +

  3/ As easy to spot spray (if not easier) using the small disc applicator than a knapsack sprayer

  4/ Product wise, You "use" only what you use

  5/ My comparison is wrong, I meant to type 1L of Roundup (not 5L), which is the nearest amount you can buy to a Nomix container's worth.

  6/ As to costs/coverage, A little hint : read the Roundup Product Label or MDS

  7/ It's the only option if you wish to spray a residual on hard surfaces (which for us will cut down tremendously spraying at commercial sites)

  8/ Here's a little cost analysis from Sam Hassel's recent magazine article (based upon a labour rate of £19.50p/hr with no account for overheads/profit):

  I keep an open mind and actively look for solutions to reduce costs and improve what we do. Given the benefits that CDA or TDA's appear to give, many of the large grounds care businesses are seeing benefits from people correctly applying chemicals, reducing EA damage and not taking short cuts, so it's a no-brainer to try ? However, time (say, after a year's seasons) will ultimately show whether I/We made a good,cost effective choice. If not, I'll be along to say so...

  Finally, I struggle hearing people that have gone thru the training yet still do not follow the 'rules' of how to apply, what to wear and precautions to take. Bit like learning to play a game, and then abusing the rules. Why bother in the first place ?

  One footnote, I suppose: It is fair to assume that CDA lances may not be your first choice if you were blanket spraying a V large area....? Experience will tell
• PRO

  Gary RK February 3, 2014 at 8:33am

  Geoff,

  We don't run a 'big operation', just 4 teams but we look to see what works for large business and see if it will work for us - that way we can compete. The idea & comments were to show that other solutions exists, rather than just do the 'same old...'.  Solutions like CDA can be applicable to every size of business given the basic CDA equipment costs vs Knapsack costs.

  The 'labour rate' mentioned is an industry average from Sam H.

  Ultimately, whether you work domestic or commercial, the same H&S rules, training & care apply.
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  Doug February 3, 2014 at 7:08pm

  Really informative thread.

  With the nomix applicator can you switch the spray on and off easily to target specifc areas, or is it constantly on? I presume you can switch on and off but the fact that it measures your walking rate suggests it is designed to be used with a constant spray.

  Also, Gary, you say it removes most of the H&S issues...do you still need to wear full PPE when applying?

  Up until now I've been guilty of keeping a 5L sprayer ready, but I need to up my game.