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  Jay Dawson December 13, 2012 at 5:08pm

  Most weedkillers (certainly Glyphosate or systemic) are not very effective as the plants are dormant.  It could be a more nasty weedkiller but I would find it quite unlikely the local council would pay someone to undertake this in the winter.
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  Colin Hunt December 13, 2012 at 5:18pm

  Maybe a residual weedkiller, but as weed growth will be negligable for the next few months, it does seem a strange time of year, doesnt it?  HOWEVER - maybe the contractor/council is contracted or being paid for a number of applications per year and they were 'box ticking'.
  
  Jay Dawson said:

  Most weedkillers (certainly Glyphosate or systemic) are not very effective as the plants are dormant.  It could be a more nasty weedkiller but I would find it quite unlikely the local council would pay someone to undertake this in the winter.
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  Jay Dawson December 13, 2012 at 5:25pm

  Yes I should think that is more likely to be the case, there is often a lot of that sort of 'box ticking' activity in local authorities.  There is certainly nothing else I can think of this time of the year.
• PRO

  Gary RK December 13, 2012 at 5:44pm

  I hope it was not a residual pesticide as it is now illegal to 'blanket spray' such products on hard surfaces such as pavements, gutters etc.

  You can only 'spot spray' residuals unless it's 'soft ground'. For Systemic to work, the plant needs to be in a 'growth' mode to translocate the pesticide down thru the 'plant', so would be wasteful.

  Law changed and came into effect earlier this year. There are some LJN posts/discussions on this subject.

  Perhaps a word to the Environmental Services Dept at local Council ?

  Maybe it's a job creation scheme :-0) ?
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  pete December 13, 2012 at 6:04pm

   I've got a run of candytuft seedlings at the foot of a wall on a public footpath - dropped down from above - I've weeded through them and got fingers crossed the council don't come along too soon.

   -had them growing for years in pure gravel once
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  Simon Gough December 15, 2012 at 10:23pm

  There is ONLY one Residual herbicide approved for use in the UK directly to hard surfaces (even then with caveats as you rightly mention). The product is Nomix DUAL (Glyphosate + Sulfosulfuron).

  It must be applied with a spinning disc type applicator as the DEFRA approval states droplet VMD must be 200 microns - which you could never gaurantee via a hand held hydraulic sprayer (knapsack).

  If the Council were using DUAL then providing they conform with the new hard surface rules see here > www.amenity.org then they would not have been doing anything wrong!
   
  Gary said:

  I hope it was not a residual pesticide as it is now illegal to 'blanket spray' such products on hard surfaces such as pavements, gutters etc.

  You can only 'spot spray' residuals unless it's 'soft ground'. For Systemic to work, the plant needs to be in a 'growth' mode to translocate the pesticide down thru the 'plant', so would be wasteful.

  Law changed and came into effect earlier this year. There are some LJN posts/discussions on this subject.

  Perhaps a word to the Environmental Services Dept at local Council ?

  Maybe it's a job creation scheme :-0) ?
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  Jim Davidson December 16, 2012 at 10:57am

  Simon the original question was will the product being sprayed work at temperatures of -5

  Do Nomix products work at these sort of temps ?
• PRO

  Gary RK December 16, 2012 at 2:13pm

  I suggest no; and that the application was perhaps still 'inappropriate" when the temp is -5 even if using a CDA given the product's MSDS, which states (as is no different to normal pressure spray applied products - note use of term 'actively growing'):

  "Apply Nomix Dual at any time when the weeds are green and actively
  growing. Annual grasses and broad-leaved weeds should have at least
  5cm of leaf or 2 expanded true leaves at the time of application.

  Perennial broad-leaved weeds are most susceptible if treated at or near
  flowering, but will be severely checked if they are treated at other
  times, when they are actively growing. Optimal residual activity is
  obtained when Nomix Dual is applied in Spring or early Summer.
  Application of lime, fertiliser, organic manure and pesticides should be
  delayed until 5 days after application."

  Would the product not have frozen in the air, given droplet size ?

  This is the same/similar directions as when we use "Stirrup" in our CDA.

  The only product that I know works in -5 is 'Sheen X300' - with the added benefit...it keeps the operator warm... ;-)
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  Simon Gough December 16, 2012 at 10:31pm

  
  
  Gary said:

  I suggest no; and that the application was perhaps still 'inappropriate" when the temp is -5 even if using a CDA given the product's MSDS, which states (as is no different to normal pressure spray applied products - note use of term 'actively growing'):

  "Apply Nomix Dual at any time when the weeds are green and actively
  growing. Annual grasses and broad-leaved weeds should have at least
  5cm of leaf or 2 expanded true leaves at the time of application.

  Perennial broad-leaved weeds are most susceptible if treated at or near
  flowering, but will be severely checked if they are treated at other
  times, when they are actively growing. Optimal residual activity is
  obtained when Nomix Dual is applied in Spring or early Summer.
  Application of lime, fertiliser, organic manure and pesticides should be
  delayed until 5 days after application."

  Would the product not have frozen in the air, given droplet size ?

  This is the same/similar directions as when we use "Stirrup" in our CDA.

  The only product that I know works in -5 is 'Sheen X300' - with the added benefit...it keeps the operator warm... ;-)

  
  Gary, you are absolutely correct it would not be a good idea to use DUAL at these kind of temperatures. I was concentrating more on the legalities (with my trainers hat on).
  Dual is the only residual herbicide on the UK market with hard surface approvals.
  It would not freeze due it's the fact that its an oil polymer emulsion and also the pack worn on the operators back does absorb a few degrees of body heat too.
  All the herbicides which have a residual and systemic component will work to some extent when there is no active growth, albeit you are often 'wasting' the systemic component , in this case Glyphosate.
  Sulfosulsuron is a Monsanto active, in Agriculture it is sold as a single active herbicide called Monitor and like other sulfonyl
  Urea actives will work to an extent if sprayed in the winter.
  Dual is a huge seller for us at Terra Firma and we have a lot of experience with it.
  
  I think the council workers may have been spraying Potassium Acetate as a de-icer?
  .