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  David Cox October 23, 2012 at 8:09am

  You will come up against the issue that the best candidates would probably be upto running their own business and so you would need to pay a decent rate - say £8-£10 per hour depending on area, to get someone as experienced as you want.

  HJave you thought about going slower, and recruiting someone, training them up WITH you in your way of working, then later on adding the "junior" person to work with?
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  Phil Voice October 23, 2012 at 9:30am

  Hi Graeme

  Welcome to LJN, I hope you find the site useful.

  There's no such thing as a stupid question:)

  However I don't think there's a specific answer to your question(s). 

  I think, to start with, you have to be sure you are getting the right price per hour for your services. 

  Work out your running costs for the combined entity, add in several wage scenarios plus a profit margin and then test this to see if you are pitching your price that's competitive in your area.

  If you find that to get a good gardener you may have to pay someone well as David suggests

  With the extra cost of a van, uniform and all the expenses that go with employment, your hourly rate may be higher than it is now.

  I'd start by listing absolutely every cost you are currently incurring as well as what you envisage the costs of a second outfit would be and see what you are dealing with...and then take a view from there.

  Make a list of what unique selling points your service has. This will help justify your costs to existing/future clients.

  Happy to have a look with you when you are ready.

   
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  Graeme Toyne October 24, 2012 at 8:32am

  Thanks for the replies.

  This year, for one or two days a week I've been able to sub-contract out work to someone who had set themselves up as self-employed last year so had time to fill whilst they were growing their client base. They were charging me £70 per day plus expenses, so this is in line with the £8 to £10 per hour mentioned and i'm happy that I can generate an acceptable profit at this level (for the experienced person)

  I have also done a chunk of scenario planning looking at different staffing options, ranging from taking one person on to work along side me through to setting up two new teams of two plus me. From this, it does seem that the team of two, plus myself, plus the sub-contractor on an ad-hoc basis is going to be the most efficient. My main unknown was the pay figure - I was working on £70 a day but wasn't sure if it was realistic - but it sounds like it is. For the junior, I was working on £40 to £45 a day.

  Where have people had best success recruiting decent people from? Job Centre, online jobsite, newspaper ad etc?
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  David Cox October 24, 2012 at 9:58am

  Word of mouth and friends of friends for labour when i've needed it.
  If you want to talk £numbers id move the topic to the KBO group - that said, remember paying someone say £70 a day (Fair for an experienced worker imo) You will easily have another £20-£25 a day of overheads to add to that, on Tools, insurance and running costs to accommodate them. Remember they are also entitled to holiday pay, so add another £8.40 to that figure just to cover holiday pay.

  You then have employers National Insurance. so the real cost of paying £70 a day is closer to ££110..........
  do the maths.

  At £40-£45 a day your going find it hard getting anyone worth employing -  they can earn more stacking shelves or doing temp work, in a much less demanding environment - and you'd still be having to earn at least £100 a day from their work to break even.
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  Graeme Toyne October 25, 2012 at 12:06am

  Thanks David

  I've pretty well got the overheads you mention covered in my business planning with the exception of the holiday pay. Not sure why I need to add £8.40 on - would you mind explaining please?

  Thanks

  p.s what's the KBO group?
  
  David Cox said:

  Word of mouth and friends of friends for labour when i've needed it.
  If you want to talk £numbers id move the topic to the KBO group - that said, remember paying someone say £70 a day (Fair for an experienced worker imo) You will easily have another £20-£25 a day of overheads to add to that, on Tools, insurance and running costs to accommodate them. Remember they are also entitled to holiday pay, so add another £8.40 to that figure just to cover holiday pay.

  You then have employers National Insurance. so the real cost of paying £70 a day is closer to ££110..........
  do the maths.

  At £40-£45 a day your going find it hard getting anyone worth employing -  they can earn more stacking shelves or doing temp work, in a much less demanding environment - and you'd still be having to earn at least £100 a day from their work to break even.
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  Colin Hunt October 25, 2012 at 6:42am

  I would tend to start think more in terms of an annual salary, rather than an hourly rate.  Employing someone is a commitment from both you and the employee. 28(min) days holiday, employers NI, 'rainy days' are all major expenses above self employment,  plus a miriade of smaller additions already mentioned.  That's all without your profit margin and the pension contributions you may have to pay in a few years time.

  Agree with above, move to Key Business Objectives.
• PRO

  Phil Voice October 25, 2012 at 8:23am

  Graeme

  KBO = Key Business Objectives. You can find it here: http://www.landscapejuicenetwork.com/group/keyobjectivesprivategroup?
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  David Cox October 25, 2012 at 8:37am

  Graeme - at the top of the page theirs a tab marked groups - click on it and search / look for the Key Business Objectives group - then join it and fire away in their.

  THe £8.40 per day accrued holiday pay - As colin says - If you employ someone full time on £70 a day - they are entitled to 28 days PAID annual holiday a year - so thats 28 days paid at £70 - or approx 12% of what they earn each day....

  so assuming 47 working weeks a year x 5 x70 = 16450

  16450 x 0.12 = 1974 holiday pay you will have to pay

  1974 / (47*5) = 8.40 per day you need to set aside - obviously this is worked out pro-rata and would need to be adjusted for non working days / weather days etc.

  Obviously you do not have to put this to one side - you can just pay it as it comes due - BUT remember the employee IS entitled to this pay and it could be a nasty shock having to pay holiday pay out of the business account, be a pair of working hands down, and still have to bring in the cashflow.
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  Graeme Toyne October 25, 2012 at 11:44pm

  Thanks for the replies. I had covered holidays, just in a different way.

  
  Am I right in thinking that the 28 days holiday includes Bank Holidays? Am i also right in understanding that we don't have to pay an emplyee if they are off sick for three days or less, but if they are off for four days or more we have to pay Statutary Sick pay?
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  Colin Hunt October 26, 2012 at 6:38am

  The 28 days does include Bank Holidays and you are right re sick pay.  The employee must provide a certificate for the period off and you can claim the SSP back as a percentage of NI paid during that period.