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  coxy84 February 9, 2009 at 8:49pm

  its all about doing what s right for you if you dont mind designing for free then thats fine, what you have to ask yourself is, is the client getting your full effort/attention on the design when your doing it for free, you don t want to be rushing designs to get them done cause your doing them for free then for the client to be disappointed with the end result, because reputation is everything.
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  Daniel Kaye February 9, 2009 at 9:05pm

  Thanks Coxy, fair point.
  The thing is i end up spending lots of time on them anyway as i cant leave a job half done.
  So it would be nice to get something for it too.
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  Grant February 9, 2009 at 9:27pm

  I have started charging for designs, after many years of doing them for free, but do emphasise to the client that if we landscape the garden then the design fee is subtracted from the landscaping total. In the past I have spent alot of time doing a design and complex quotes and not got the work, but this way the client feels like they are getting something for free and we usually get to landscape the garden!
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  Nicky @ GardenImprovements.com February 9, 2009 at 10:11pm

  Hi Daniel
  
  I originally posted this in the "client budget" discussion but the post is more relevant to this topic:
  
  The design fee is a crucial tool in the client's understanding of what they are entering into - many (or most?) folk are still very naive about what can be achieved with a garden space and so the design fee presents the design notion itself as a professional applied skill. For us as a design and build firm, if the client does't wish to pay for a design, then they probably aren't the client for us.
  
  Also crucial is that your time is of value - and so more importantly is your experienced and creative input into a design. The fee represents the value of the design plan. Without a design what would the client have? So in fact (even as a landscaper) you really should try and get paid for the work you put into a design.
  
  It is true that people love getting things for free but I reckon they will respect the worth of your design far more if they had to pay for it than if you simply gave it to them. After all what's to stop them saying "thank you very much" and then just getting the husband and brother-in-law to do the work? You would feel used and be out of pocket to boot.
  
  Definitely get some money for the design. Even if you're not that confident you could start with a nominal fee of £50 say, which would still be cheap at the price but would represent some from of value as far as the customer is concerned. You can build it up from there.
  
  Cheers
  
  
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  Empire Garden Services February 9, 2009 at 11:10pm

  I have found that if i charge a small fee , say £25 - £35 for a design, I can offer this to be waived if the job is undertaken, as I can loose that cost in the job somewhere. Any design that taks more than say and evening or two should be considered a Days Labour I Feel.
  
  Most people I have found want a rough sketch, showing scale, etc, so most of the time i just end up drafting a design. Now, Full designs and rendering i get my Friend Who's a CAD operator to knock up, and he charges about a tneth of what his company charge him at!
• PRO

  Phil Voice February 10, 2009 at 6:51am

  Here is the link to the 'client budget' thread.
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  Dave Sewell February 12, 2009 at 5:36pm

  Personally I believe that that people undervalue things that are free. I also believe that the design is the most important element of a garden. A good one really makes it and a bad one will be a costly mistake. I cannot understand why you would want to give this skill away and I can't understand why the fee would be knocked off the price if the client goes on to do the build. If people are undervaluing the design process how on earth are good, creative designers who need to charge a fee to make their living going to compete?
  Dave
  
  
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  Jessica O'Reilly February 13, 2009 at 1:54pm

  Hi Daniel,
  
  I started very much like you. My partner was a landscape gardener when I met him and I had a degree in art and design so started off sketching up ideas for garden designs for him and he gave them away free with the quotation hoping to get the work. It worked quite well for the short time we did it, but it is definatley for only one sector of the market. I soon realised there was much more involved with designing a garden, (to name but one thing, the plants!) so I enrolled at Capel Manor and started a 3 year Garden Design course. Boy did I have my socks blown off! How much there is to know is astronomical! I have finished the 3 years and have had many gardens built have had lengthy chats with Dean about construction and been on site lots but still I have many things to learn!
  
  Once you get a glimse into the world of garden design you realise that it is a very proffessional industry and very competitive. Also very skilled and technical and quite rightly able to charge high fees. I am a member of the Society of Garden Designers (SGD) and they hold the highest of standards (rightly so) But for that level of proffessionalism you do catapult your self into a different ball game altogether.
  
  For example I have just completed a design and planting plan for a £60,000 job. I charged my design fee at £1000. This is not nearly enough, but as I am still working in a "Landscaping" company primarily I price low so we get the job. Some designers will charge 10% of the job build i.e £6,000.
  
  I think its all about finding the right market that you are comfortable in. I would not yet feel comfortable charging what the SGD suggest you charge but am working more towards those figures. I think you price yourself intuitively based at what you can offer.
  
  People have no idea what goes into designing a garden and it should be on par with architecture but we have a long way to go before people regard it as so. It is all in the planning, having a good well thought through plan, to scale, makes it easy to quote, easy to plan the order of build, mark out, and build, basically! You need to have a plan! So yes, the short answer is definatley charge a small amount for the design if you spend a lot of time on it.
  
  Clive Warwick said:

  This is one of the main problems in the industry. As I said sometime we do offer an incentive to the client that we will knock the design fee or a portion of it. It very much depends on how big the job is and if we really need the work. Sometime we find if we have quoted well we can make the money back square and far.
  
  The problems within the industry is that there are too many designers out there at the moment and too many landscapers all completing for the same business and charging too little for design, this has always been a problem for as long as I having been designing. Garden designers in particular either (in my experince) charge too little because they dont understand the industry, its methods, or they charge too much (as they are a member of the SOGD (not of you involved in the SODG)) and provide a poor service. Landscapers equally, tend to do the minimum amount of design (good and bad) in order to quote for the work and then dont often charge. (once again, this is not all obviously ). But I have come across a few who do this.
  
  It does undermine the position of those of us who have good experience and consider our services to be of a certain standard. This is a contraversal point but a lot of people enter the garden design market straight from a course having had a career change, never done all the necessary practical or hands on stuff, havent a clue about, design, colour, costings and projects management, but do lots of 45 degree angled designs, charge a fortune and make it work, others do a few jobs for their mates and friends of friends, run out of work and go back to doing their previous jobs. This is not new and thats why perhaps professional associations are of benefit.
  
  
  
  
  Dave Sewell said:

  Personally I believe that that people undervalue things that are free. I also believe that the design is the most important element of a garden. A good one really makes it and a bad one will be a costly mistake. I cannot understand why you would want to give this skill away and I can't understand why the fee would be knocked off the price if the client goes on to do the build. If people are undervaluing the design process how on earth are good, creative designers who need to charge a fee to make their living going to compete?
  Dave
  www.the-gardenmakers.co.uk
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  Graeme @ BGS February 13, 2009 at 5:17pm

  I can’t believe that professional designers don’t all charge at least a flat fee.
  
  Personally I would be happy to pay upfront particularly if I have seen your portfolio. How many times do potential clients don’t follow up with the work, i.e. they are just dreaming or window shopping?
  
  A friend of mine is a cracking good designer and a few years ago he charged me £50 (and a few beers) just to turn up to discuss my requirements.
  He completed a basic design including an outline planting scheme and was happy to leave this with me or charge £500 for a more detailed plan including full material list etc. and these were mates rates!
  
  If you wanted to build a house the architect wouldn't draw up the plans for nothing on the hope that you may ask them to project manage it.
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  Daniel Johnson III February 14, 2009 at 10:34am

  my point to clients is always that a design SAVES MONEY as it avoids expensive mistakes and mis-understandings. I won't build without at least an agreed sketch and I charge for it.
  
  If you want to sweeten the deal, put the design on the invoice, with the price you should have charged, then discount it further down.
  
  10% of the job budget as jessica says is a very good rule of thumb. And if you are going to spend more than a couple of hundred of your clients money then a design is absolutely imperative. As important as a proper budget. If there is no design in place there is nothing to refer back to when the client says 'i don't like that can you do it again'