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  Gary RK December 7, 2010 at 4:26pm

  Have you looked at hiring/borrowing a two stroke post holer (Stihl & others do them) ?
  
  We have one with a 8" & 10" augers. Great for fencing etc unless soil really is rocky, but will work in stoney soils ok (just watch for kickback). We also use it for planting out on commercial sites ;-)
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  David Bloomer December 7, 2010 at 4:32pm

  your suggested scheme fits with roughly how i quote jobs based on a 2 man team.
  
  for concrete posts, gravel boards and normal panels we normally charge £75-£90 per panel includes all materials and labour, depending on access and number of panels.
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  Simon Knops December 7, 2010 at 4:45pm

  
  
  Gary RK said:

  Have you looked at hiring/borrowing a two stroke post holer (Stihl & others do them) ?
  
  We have one with a 8" & 10" augers. Great for fencing etc unless soil really is rocky, but will work in stoney soils ok (just watch for kickback). We also use it for planting out on commercial sites ;-)

  
  Hi Gary - had though about this but was advised that kick back is nasty in rocky ground and with a clutch they tend not to dig if too many stones. Might give one a go though
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  Simon Knops December 7, 2010 at 4:50pm

  
  
  David Bloomer said:

  your suggested scheme fits with roughly how i quote jobs based on a 2 man team.
  
  for concrete posts, gravel boards and normal panels we normally charge £75-£90 per panel includes all materials and labour, depending on access and number of panels.

  Thanks David. there are 52 panels overall so it looks like I might be a bit light on price. My ten days are based on one person so 5 days overall for two people sound about right?
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  Simon Knops December 7, 2010 at 5:01pm

  
  
  Gary @ Acer Paving & Landscaping said:

  Sorry Simon, but I'm confused a bit:
  
  1. 10 posts a day - Doesn't sound many but that's totally your call and I would go with what your comfortable with.
  
  2. 10 panels a day - Firstly I/we always put up the panels and posts together, but again what ever suits you, but if you erect the posts one day and fix the panels the next, surely fixing 10 panels is a very low amount ?
  
  I would have thought you could fix double that at least or am I missing something ?
  
  3. Here I am confused - You say £50 cost per panel = £27.70/metre run, where does the £32 come into it ?
  Is that the material cost including the post and postcrete ?
  
  4. I would consider some sort of hired in auger on a mini digger or whatever if you have 50 odd holes to dig. It's bound to be a lot quicker and cheaper.
  
  5. Finally, contouring aroaund a hill sounds dodgy for panels, persuade them to have close-board I say.

  Thanks Gary- the contouring is OK because it is on a level contour. Agree with you about close board though and plan to offer different options. My preference is always to set the posts first and leave them to go off, even with post crete over night. How ever I note you comment about number of panels. We should, I hope be able to crack through these once the posts are in. Cost included labour and materials. Thanks for the comments appreciated- gets me thinking!!
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  Simon Knops December 7, 2010 at 5:53pm

  
  
  Gary @ Acer Paving & Landscaping said:

  On your original basis:
  
  Materials
  
  Panel ( £50 ) = £27.70/m
  Post ( £8 ) = £4.50/m
  Postcrete = £2.50/m
  
  Total materials = £34.70/m Say £35/m inc. fixings
  
  Labour
  
  10 man days = .1 man days/m
  
  IF a man costs you £100 / day that = £10/m labour ( obviously substitute your own labour figure.
  
  Materials = £35
  Labour = £10
  Total cost = £45/metre run
  
  Then of course youv'e got to add profit/OH and Vat ( if your registered - If you were registered the material cost would have been £29.80 excl. vat )
  
  I'm not saying this is right, it's just the outcome of your proposed working time / method.

  . Thanks for taking time on this Gary. I can see now where I have caused confusion. Just checked the material costs from the supplier and there appears to be a big error in there!! They have priced the panels incorrectly ( much lower or it's a huge discount!!) which is why we don't match. Amending the price brings it in at £49/mtr incl VAT before OH. You looking at the detail made me go over it again much more more closely so a good spot on your part. Will contact them again tomorrow. Still I do have a feel for the lenghth of time this should now take. Your eagle eye is very much appreciated
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  Charles Langford December 7, 2010 at 6:11pm

  Completely depends on the ‘dig’ conditions. I think it is one of the things that makes our work so difficult to quote for. If you are a brickie you know how many bricks you can lay in a day, if you are a roofer you know how many tiles you can lay, if you are a landscaper you know how much paving you can lay. When it comes to anything underground we are all in the dark. The two man stihl post augers aren’t made anymore because of health and safety concerns (they are lethal). Brilliant in clean soil, rubbish in anything else. However you should be able to dig a hole with a graft and a pair of doubles quicker than any machine if the soil is clean. When it comes to stoney ground they can be useful depending on the density and type of stone. I would suggest an auger on a 5 tonne excavator however they are not without their issues. I broke two 300mm augers earlier this year tying to go through ragstone. I did over 80 holes by hand in the end and now can’t lift my arm to drink my coffee. Finally my girlfriend has persuaded me to go to the doctors after 6 months as I have been putting it off as I reckon I require surgery.
• PRO

  Gary RK December 7, 2010 at 6:20pm

  The Stihl BT21 one man auger is still available at dealers. Never had the need for the two man version. If its that hard a location, then I use a digger with 12" bucket.
  
  Like any tool, Post holers can be dangerous and normally down to being too agressive using them.
  
  Adopt a good stance and a loose grip, and brace suitably against thigh
  
  Have used one for over 6 years (carefully) and never had an issue....
  
  However, I guess its where you work and certainly would not recommend using on a knowingly rocky ground.
  
  
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  Simon Knops December 7, 2010 at 7:28pm

  
  
  Charles Langford said:

  Completely depends on the ‘dig’ conditions. I think it is one of the things that makes our work so difficult to quote for. If you are a brickie you know how many bricks you can lay in a day, if you are a roofer you know how many tiles you can lay, if you are a landscaper you know how much paving you can lay. When it comes to anything underground we are all in the dark. The two man stihl post augers aren’t made anymore because of health and safety concerns (they are lethal). Brilliant in clean soil, rubbish in anything else. However you should be able to dig a hole with a graft and a pair of doubles quicker than any machine if the soil is clean. When it comes to stoney ground they can be useful depending on the density and type of stone. I would suggest an auger on a 5 tonne excavator however they are not without their issues. I broke two 300mm augers earlier this year tying to go through ragstone. I did over 80 holes by hand in the end and now can’t lift my arm to drink my coffee. Finally my girlfriend has persuaded me to go to the doctors after 6 months as I have been putting it off as I reckon I require surgery.

  Charles I sympathise. My hands got a bit bashed through playing rugby , and using old fashioned road drills in rock when younger. Now use a large bar and know when to stop when the sound of whatever is below no longer rings hollow! Holes by hand in rag stone sounds a horrible task. Hope you get it sorted OK.
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  Nic Johnson December 7, 2010 at 7:33pm

  it all depends on how the site lays if theres concrete in the way it can slow you down alot ive done a job with my cousin and together we averaged 7 holes a day there was alot of clearing to do and alot of materials to get along way down the hill of the garden we fenced down. we mixed concrete with ballast and cement in the mixer. it wasn't an easy job at all we had his mini digger with a auger, but nearly everyhole ended up being dug by hand.
  each post hole had one and a half barrows of concrete and the gravel board set on concrete as we went along and fence boards dropped in the following morning
  
  also how deep are you digging the holes and how much does the slope alter we needed to change the string line every thre or four posts as the bank altered so much.
  
  he priced it at around £100 a panel i think all depends on what materials and type of fence your doing