Thoughtless Housing Developers

Hi gang, sorry not to have been around but office time has ebbed to a low now as our big projects have kicked off. The first of which is a makeover for a property 'just-out-the-wrapper' on a new estate in East Kilbride near Glasgow. We have undertaken more than a few new-build projects and generally I quite enjoy the design approach since the garden is generally taken as a blank canvas. Not enjoying this one though.Our dumper got stuck in 3 foot of putty porridge mud twice on Wednesday and once yesterday. The digger got mired in once this morning and took all of 2 hours to work loose again. We are installing drainage before our build starts.The developers (whom I shall not name since they all seem the same anyway) have simply slung a foot and a half of low-quality topsoil on top of hardcore bases and (what appears to be) a sandstone bedrock layer. The soil has performed like soil does in a sealed container and the slightest drop of water turns it to slop.My issue is that developers seem to care not about the quality of the finish for the garden - they want a quick sale so sling some turf down (to make the garden presentable) over crap topsoil with no drainage and leave the purchaser to it. Months down the line the new owner discovers that they have an overly expensive job in creating a usable garden space because extensive drainage and increased foundation works are required. BUYER BEWARE!!So now I have to negotiate new terms with my client because the project will be alot more expensive and I sure as sh*t aint footing the bill.Does anyone know what the client's chances of claiming against the developer are, or how to go about this successfully. My thoughts are that asking the developer directly would not be successful - plus this could prolong the project needlessly: is there a national panel of some kind we can submit reports and costs to that could then tackle the developer?If it's not poor drainage it's nothing but builder's rubbish: Anyone else want to join my newly formed 1 man crusade against thoughtless housing developers?Nicky PattersonGardenImprovements.com

Hi all,

I,ve done hundreds of new builds and have had some succes with getting developers to pay up for extra work. The best senario is if the housse is sold with a landscaped garden or even turfed as there are standards laid down in the building industry for this.

Usually the developer will have a written spec that was part of the job. As the gardens are usually done by the groundwork contractors (why not qualified landscapers? Simple we charge too much as we know what's involved in doing it properly) the developer can pass the cost of correctional works on to them as they should have carried out the work to the correct spec.

A common spec would be 300mm of topsoil under turfed areas and 600mm under planted areas.
Topsoil is rarely used as this is sold off as a valuable commodity by the ground works contractor at the beginning of the project. Sub soil costs money to dispose of so wherever they can get away with it the groundworks contractor use this in the home owners gardens to save themselves money on getting rid of it and again on buying in topsoil.

If there is a good site agent and you can get him on your side he can throw down the weight of the developer to force the groundworks firm to correct the job or pay up.

However it is not uncommon for the site agent to be "on the take" as it is he who signed off the substandard work in the first place, so he wont be to keen to help.

You can also send soil off to RHS Wisley for testing to get a definitive 'subsoil or topsoil' statement and then use basic trades description law as a tool to get things put right.

All of this involves a lot of time and delay and the client doesn't often have to gumption to get to grips with it. So it's ususally best to find another way to get things put right if the site agent isn't the helpfull and honest kind.

If more homeowners had the balls to complain and follow it up it wouldn't keep happening.

No I'm not cynical, just experienced.

Replies

chris nangle March 1, 2009 at 6:25pm

i have been involved in a few projects like this they start out with good intentions but as soon as it comes down to the budget they just want a quick fix .
coxy84 March 1, 2009 at 7:49pm

had a few new build projects all the gardens have been full of rubbish and often have drainage problems,
starting one tomorrow as well fingers crossed !
coxy84 March 5, 2009 at 7:53pm

digging out the garden of this new build found a yellow plastic pipe about a ft under the ground with no protection think its the gas pipe, surely that should be lower or protected ?!
Nicky @ GardenImprovements.com March 5, 2009 at 8:23pm

coxy84 said:
digging out the garden of this new build found a yellow plastic pipe about a ft under the ground with no protection think its the gas pipe, surely that should be lower or protected ?!

This is the other thing - they should surely supply the householder with the locations of these utilities or put a plaque of the plan in the garage or back of the gas meter or something because that is extrememly dangerous. If Joe Public hired an excavator to do their garden for a drainage project that could have been lights out and half a house blown away. Deadly. I can't believe that in this molly-coddled H+S EU that we live in there isn't a common sense legislation dictating the guidlines on this.

The last time I checked was for a house built in 1988 and back then the pipes only had to be 4 inches deep!! I don't even know if that has changed any but we ALWAYS get a CAT scanner out before any digs - only costs £30 or so and makes certain that the site is safe.

Nicky
GardenImprovements.com
Pip Howard March 5, 2009 at 8:39pm

Right with you on this one. The amount of times I have been to view a garden, which in almost every single house built since the early eighties there is a huge problem in the 'soil mechanics' as a direct result of inferior operations to grade the garden. Since Christmas I have viewed one garden with a 'drainage problem' to discover that under 500mm of poor quality, (usually a blend of subsoil and sub standard topsoil), was a layer of rubbish from sandwich cartons to large plastic building bags that had prevented natural seepage resulting in water runoff into the ventilation of the house and another garden where the builders had 'forgotten' to take the block off a well made drainage system, again the results were damp inside the sitting room. In the latter case we did investigate the case for reproach - however if the build is 'signed off' there is no way of taking the issue further. Basically there should be more weight behind the landscaping trade in persuading the inspectors, (who incidentally have to study soil mechanics in order to gain their qualification) to take the garden conditions more seriously. The risk of serious run off, erosion and in steeper sites actual landslides are real and have occured but been generally ignored. The EA should be lobbied more - but this can go back to the old 'what are the APL BALI etc.,. doing for the industry argument.

So as I say right beside you with pitchfork in hand!
Nicky @ GardenImprovements.com March 9, 2009 at 3:42pm

This project is on farmland; they dig up all the decent cultivated soil and sell it before they start building!! Man alive! We just started back at this project this morning after leaving the earth to settle after drainage but ended up spending 4 hours digging the micro-machines we hired out of the muck! Downed tools and explained to clients who are now approaching developer so we shall see how it goes. The muck is a joke - it's that bad that there's little chance of our drainage taking any real effect and the soil really needs replacing altogether. Every other property in this street and I would presume most of the estate will be in similar conditions. It's a scandal I'm telling you - it's cost me 2 days cost and labour already and has cost my clients some never mind all the grief caused. Bloody cowboy developers. I'm thinking of taking it to the press if they don't get something done smartly - got plenty of contacts!!

Raging!

Nicky, GardenImprovements.com
James Gardner March 10, 2009 at 7:21am

Hi all,

I,ve done hundreds of new builds and have had some succes with getting developers to pay up for extra work. The best senario is if the housse is sold with a landscaped garden or even turfed as there are standards laid down in the building industry for this.

Usually the developer will have a written spec that was part of the job. As the gardens are usually done by the groundwork contractors (why not qualified landscapers? Simple we charge too much as we know what's involved in doing it properly) the developer can pass the cost of correctional works on to them as they should have carried out the work to the correct spec.

A common spec would be 300mm of topsoil under turfed areas and 600mm under planted areas.
Topsoil is rarely used as this is sold off as a valuable commodity by the ground works contractor at the beginning of the project. Sub soil costs money to dispose of so wherever they can get away with it the groundworks contractor use this in the home owners gardens to save themselves money on getting rid of it and again on buying in topsoil.

If there is a good site agent and you can get him on your side he can throw down the weight of the developer to force the groundworks firm to correct the job or pay up.

However it is not uncommon for the site agent to be "on the take" as it is he who signed off the substandard work in the first place, so he wont be to keen to help.

You can also send soil off to RHS Wisley for testing to get a definitive 'subsoil or topsoil' statement and then use basic trades description law as a tool to get things put right.

All of this involves a lot of time and delay and the client doesn't often have to gumption to get to grips with it. So it's ususally best to find another way to get things put right if the site agent isn't the helpfull and honest kind.

If more homeowners had the balls to complain and follow it up it wouldn't keep happening.

No I'm not cynical, just experienced.