A few clients have asked me recently if i would be willing to clear snow and apply some rock salt if the weather turns bad again this year.
Ive explained the insurance issues with regards my liability if someone slips and injures themselves, plus if the weather is particulary poor, i may not be able to even get there!
In most cases the rock salt will be supplied by the client, i just need to turn up if required. None of these jobs will have any contractual obligation, just a reactive service or putting down some salt if im there anyway and the weather forecast is for icy/snow conditions.
Is it acceptable, and for that matter legally sound, to get said client to sign a disclaimer to cover my liability if an accident should occur. If a disclaimer would be viable how would one word it to make sure it is legally water tight?
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If you can show you acted with due diligence and care then you are on normally on safe ground, but remember any one can sue any one for the most ridiculous reasons. Our only hope is a sensible 'judge'/arbitrator' ....
Draw up a simple job sheet, recording date, weather, temp / conditions etc, where you applied it and how much. If you can get it signed off by client and/or take a mobile phone photo that should stop any frivolous comebacks
As a guide a clenched fist ( or about 40 gms ) is sufficient per metre for most conditions in the south. Increase this amount accordingly.
DO NOT put down shovel fulls as it could be construed as not knowing what you are doing....
It either needs to be removed as much as possible or have 'heavy traffic' to get the action going.
Below -5deg, rock salt becomes ineffective unless surface has been pre wetted with brine.
We are looking at this solution for use over here. The US leads the way on means and equipment. Various manufactors hve increased their product range to include pre-wetting solutions.
Thanks Gary, that makes me feel more at ease with agreeing to help those that request it ;-)
Application wise, i was going to use one of the flexible builders tubs containing the rock salt and use a normal hand trowel to broadcast the salt around, using the same action as if hand broadcasting grass seed, this hopefully will give an acceptable coverage with good spread
Gary RK said:
You might try a small coal shovel, quite cheap, easier to flick the rock salt
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000LFYOME/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1...
I have quite a few elderly customers and last year i did a lot of snow and ice clearance. I didn't just chuck some grit salt down though, I cleared the snow then broke up the ice and removed that, so the path/drive surface was totally clear then applied grit salt to prevent the wet surface from freezing.
I returned to each site after each snowfall and after freezing conditions. I found that the grit salt prevented the snow from settling for quite a few days, but i kept going back and checking it.
No one slipped on their arse on any surface i treated (not even me lol)
I didn't charge much for this service, just enough to cover costs really, just glad to be out and glad no one was slipping over,
Hi Anthony,
I seen your post and well i can help.
I am the director of a winter Service Training Provider as well as many other areas. firstly your original Question was legality.. ok Salting is classed as emergency treatment for prevention Of !! so in short so as long as you have been instructed to deposit on a public place I.E contract etc your on the winning side, however you would still need public liability insurance if carrying out for commercial gain as it comes under CDM Regulations and the Highways Specification. also i notice you say the client will supply material. now this maybe a problem depending on the equipment used so beware. next you talk about a waiver, tbh this will not excuse you under CDM as it includes both client and contractor Responsibilities for example.
as for Predicting weather, well let me know if you get this right lol. in short a provider for salting must despatch on a weather forecast of specific detail so i wont get into it on here but if your assigned then regardless you will be required to pre grit hence before the weather turns really bad.
Ok some food for thought, gary above stated a 40gms spread.
A 40gms spread is only required to deal with the most extreme conditions for example 3 - 6' of snow with ice or a sheet of ice. with snow your best of doing a plough run followed by a grit.
As a rough guide a 10gms spread is classed as precautionary and carried out before weather setts in, then increase to 20 - 30 as it worsens. a 40 gms would only be used if you missed the precautionary prior hence let it get away from you.
A good point by gary is the use of brine, This can also assist in many ways and most of the machines we are now using are fitted with Brine Solution and applied via pre wet. so a good consideration for you.
Im not sure of the rules on this forum so ill appologise in advance to admin if im not allowed to do the following and please edit or remove if not acceptable.
Anthony If you want more information on Winter services, please email admin@roadsafetyuk.com and we will try and advise you best we can or if you would require Recognised industry approved City and Guilds training then we can also help.
Regards
Keiron O'Rourke
Keiron,
I believe Anthony was talking about private residences in which case CDM etc does not apply, nor on private business estates where the roads are unadopted by LHA.
Here's a link to the directive I spoke about : http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_191868
Have gritting rates changed - our info and rates came from Highways Agency & our Local County Council ? Appreciate it may vary depending on geography. We based our rates on thisRATES OF SPREAD OF ROAD SALT
The following rates are a GUIDE to salting, the actual rate will depend upon the road conditions, residual salinity, and severity of predicted weather conditions.
This table of SUGGESTED rates of spread is for impervious road surfaces, using rock salt specified to BS 3247.
Frost or ice after dry conditions.............................10 - 15 grammes/sq. metre
Frost or ice after rainfall/wet conditions................... 20 - 40
Snowfall..................................................... 20 - 40
Most home owners would not do precautionary gritting in my experience, it always tends to be re-active. Maybe due to cost, maybe lack of time, or just can't be bothered (nearer truth I suspect!)
Keiron O'Rourke said:
Hi Gary,
i Was just covering the base with the term client being used ;), if it was on unadopted highway then the land owner is responsible otherwise if not the latter.
The spread rates have not changed, although it is common for authorities to adopt there own policy and this will be based on supplies and financial to be entirely honest with you. the rates i speak of are the current advisable.
The highways agency currently spread precautionary at 10 - 15 and 20 - 30 for heavier dealings. but as last year proved they totally underestimated weather condition across the UK and failed to dispatch in due time hence the 3 weeks of closures around the country.
Regards
Keiron
Hi Guys,
Just a quick query - why would CDM apply to salting?
Keiron O'Rourke said:
If i remember correctly the highways agency have adopted the RAG scheme from CDM regs relating to any 'works' on in the highways sector to cover H&S issues. Some believe it may be an overkill....
Also, to reduce Anthony's original concerns, see this;
http://www.iosh.co.uk/news_and_events/news/latest_member_news/iosh_...
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