Forum

Replies

• 

  Claire Brown July 31, 2012 at 10:08pm

  If you are going to be replanting with plants from a reputable supplier ( as opposed to plants from other parts of the clients garden for exampl)e. Then they will have fertiliser encorporated in with the compost, so a good application of soil conditioner will be fine for this autumn, when you are encouraging root rather than top growth. If you are going to be using bare root or root wrapped plants, then I would suggest mycorrhizal fungi in each planting hole ( I use root grow for all shrubs and hedging that I plant.)
  But 30cm is a shallow root depth, you wil be fine with a lot of perennials, but not so great for shrubs
• 

  Melissa Morton July 31, 2012 at 10:40pm

  Thanks Claire.  It is indeed perennials that we are planting - it's a long herbaceous border. When we started we then realised why their roses had not fared well.

  Good point re fertiliser already encorporated.  Would you then top dress in spring around all the plants?
• 

  David Cox July 31, 2012 at 10:57pm

  Is this the clay loam in the bottom of the wharfe valley, or a glacial Clay with loamy characteristics from the Grit -stone underlying the clay, found on the Tops of the valley area?

  (For example my house is on the latter, just off the Otley Road).

  The Lack of Nitrate and Potassium indicates to me the latter - due to the soil being prone to waterlogging half way through its depth, leaching the solubles out.

  If this is the case, I would mulch with 2-3 inches of Compost, and not dig this in, but rather use this to create a New O-horizon over the soil, digging in on these soils will improve the structure to our eyes, but the organic matter quickly leaches down to the clay pan (if not into the free draining grit-stone beneath).

  The clay loams at the bottom of the valley are wonderful some are several Meters deep! - mix in anything you like and it should hold well - If its low in N its either being over used, the top layer removed from site, or its leaching badly which would indicate it could be clay over Gravel (Like the areas around the Old gravel pits near Otley [Sailing club area])

  Be careful with Michorizzia boosters - I pesonally see them as a joke at best and a scam at worst - almost every species of plant has its own unique relationship with specific mycorrhizal fungi and a general booster may help some plants and will not help others. In undisturbed soils plants make their own relationships with the michorizzia native and suitable to the soil conditions at that site, and to the plant species itself. (Eg, the relationships an Oak may have in Sandy soil are different to those it would have in heavy soil, and different to an Ash tree in the same Sandy Soil)

  A good way to inoculate the correct types would be to take soil samples from established - UNCULTIVATED plantings of the same species on similar soil types (often difficult with shrubs I know),
• 

  Melissa Morton July 31, 2012 at 11:23pm

  Thanks Dave - good to hear from you....

  It is indeed in the Wharfe valley - at the bottom though.  It is a century old garden (landscaped at turn of 20th century).  These formal beds have been there not as long, as I said, where introduced ontop of a former path.  Therefore we have reasonable drainage in parts and heavy clay in others.  (There is a natural stream running through the lower part of this garden.)  The existing (now removed border plants) had probably been there for 5-10 years - so I think can safely say that the soil is exhausted but was probably not improved that much either initially. 

  Realised since my last answer that top dressing in spring may be awkward as intending to mulch the plants after planting in September.
• 

  David Cox July 31, 2012 at 11:33pm

  Safe to say its probabbly the great soil from the garden - but in a crap situation - Perhaps mulching over winter with a good layer of rotted manure and compost / leafmold to an inch or so(except around the plants root collars). The soil has great nutrient holding ability so you should not have much problem improving it at all. If you need Bulk compost have you tried Nutramulch Near Bramhope? The sell by the ton loose and you'd need to collect, but its the stuff the farmers are using as soil improver now.

  Raised beds are  weird one - I always find that being raised above the surounding area, with increase pourous volume beneath the surface area, seems ot lead to the soil exhausting quicker - A quick blind test on my allotment showed that after just 2 crops (1 season) the raised bed (using exact same soil) was producing plants about 40% shorter and smaller (In this case Kale and Courgette) than the "in soil" plants.

  I can only imagine it results in faster compaction of the lower layers and faster relative leaching due to the increased volume relative to surface area.
  
  Melissa Morton said:

  Thanks Dave - good to hear from you....

  It is indeed in the Wharfe valley - at the bottom though.  It is a century old garden (landscaped at turn of 20th century).  These formal beds have been there not as long, as I said, where introduced ontop of a former path.  Therefore we have reasonable drainage in parts and heavy clay in others.  (There is a natural stream running through the lower part of this garden.)  The existing (now removed border plants) had probably been there for 5-10 years - so I think can safely say that the soil is exhausted but was probably not improved that much either initially. 

  Realised since my last answer that top dressing in spring may be awkward as intending to mulch the plants after planting in September.
• 

  Melissa Morton July 31, 2012 at 11:41pm

  thanks Dave about Nutramulch.  I have heard about it but had forgotten.  Is the name a bit misleading - less of a mulch but a manufactured soil?  Is the soil improver high in OM?
• 

  David Cox August 1, 2012 at 9:07am

  Ive used it both in gardens and walked fields its used on - To be honest its good stuff IMO -  id give it 7 out of 10 (can be clumpy). I suppose its hard to classify whether its a manufactured soil or not, - Have not given it much tought, but id imagine been so high in OM it would loose volume over time so would be less than ideal.

  I understand it to be 90% green waste composted in windrows... Its all organic matter. If your driving near Harewood any time soon, about 2 miles before the estate (coming from Leeds) theres some huge piles of it in OSR(oilseed rape) fields, ready for spreading. I have been told (through dont know for sure) that its the waste from the Brown garden waste bins - though not too sure on that as I've never seen the bin wagons near their site!.

  I always use compost and top dressings as a mulch and never dig into the soil personally - I try to work on a no-till / minimum soil disturbance basis unless the soil is badly compacted.
  
  Melissa Morton said:

  thanks Dave about Nutramulch.  I have heard about it but had forgotten.  Is the name a bit misleading - less of a mulch but a manufactured soil?  Is the soil improver high in OM?
• 

  Melissa Morton August 1, 2012 at 1:41pm

  Interesting stuff!  Thanks.