LJN Blog Posts

Comments

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  Graeme @ BGS July 12, 2009 at 3:02pm

  It is so refreshing to hear that people like yourselves are still prepared to take younger members on and give them real jobs for a decent "youth wage". I can only assume that when they move on they will look back at their time with you with such pride of their achievements and the solid foundation they have received.
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  Sustainable Land Management July 12, 2009 at 3:12pm

  Thanks for your comments, but I can honestly say we don't do it for altruism. The clients respond well to it and as we advertise it on our site it can actually put an edge over another company. We don't don't do commercial or public sector contracts - but for the latter again it can add to your tender quite substantially. Most importantly though on the whole we make money from doing this. Charlotte Duriez who is with us at the moment took to the work like a duck to water - we would be paying normally £100 - £120 a day for similar labour and skills and yet we only pay her £50.00 That makes us sound a bit mean, but as most of her fellow students are earning from £30 - £80 a week we are paying far more than most.
  
  This system is open to abuse though; for instance a nursery here in cornwall uses a Duchy student, pays them £80 a week and leaves it to them to manage the whole nursery. They don't pay holiday even though they should and have no insurance. the college are not interested in helping the student as they will lose considerable money if the student drops out.
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  dgeorgea July 12, 2009 at 9:17pm

  'Another huge factor in the UK is the bizarre strength of the volunteer sector. Indeed the National Trust and others actually have people paying to work for them! This is enviable to other countries, but should not be tolerated. The long term results of a volunteer base have also helped to demoralise the industry and further enhance the 'non professional' image of landscapers and other who work on the land. It also more importantly seperates the Quangos and NGO's still further from an industry full of the people they really need to be employing or at least working with. It is also immeasureably unfair and frankly corrupt.
  
  If there is ever to be a decent governing body or quango working for the landscape industry, one would hope they can tackle these issues head on and as such allow the industry to progress.'
  
  Not unsurprisingly I will have to disagree with the this part of your blog. In the friendliest manner, of course.
  
  I would be curious to hear the arguments as to why the healthy volunteer base has demoralised and enhanced the non professional image of the industry.
  
  I would be hard pushed to consider an area with a strong volunteering base which has been detrimental to the sector. Arguably fund raising could be considered one, however people on the street rattling collection tins, though this still remains one of the most effective methods of fund raising and many charities still depend on it.
  
  I can give an example of the opposite, where a strong volunteer base has given rise to new jobs. Teaching assistants rose from a health army of 'mother' volunteers in class rooms. Some of whom spend their own money to continue their education doing a range of courses to better help children.
  
  Volunteers in a range of sectors, including housing, education, shops, have done little to act in a detrimental manner, and indeed have lead to people getting full employment. Practically no one grows up wanting to work in housing in the uk, and some of the best workers have come to it via the co-op movement, and tenant management, or the voluntary movement. One of the top people involved in tenant management in our council started out as an activist, and there are photos of her leading protests against the council and the government of the time.
  
  While I would accept that a few professions would be best left untouched by volunteers, even some of them have seen some of the greatest advances not by professionals, but by volunteers, or keen amateurs, nursing being one.
  
  Many communities are far better now not because landscapers got involved, because there was little or no money to pay for them, but volunteers knowing what they want for their communities and got their hands dirty creating their dreams.
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  Sustainable Land Management July 12, 2009 at 10:01pm

  You have convinced me George, to retread my argument as you absolutely right - the basis of my rant was that land management has become utterly dependent on the volunteer sector right up to the point were the volunteers themselves in certain settings are being, well frankly abused. It is difficult to draw the line in the sand here, but I am certain there is one and I think in many respects it is perhaps a rural / urban issue - as such the absolute need for the volunteer sector in order to push forward an agenda of improving a landscape within any given locality is an essential element of society, the flippant use of volunteers in other sectors, (e.g. the requirements of basic land management within a rural setting), can lead to a reduction of available employment for the locals. And unfortunately one has to point the finger at the NT with regards this, although they are only taking advantage of situation in order to further their activities elsewhere, (some might say). Where I do take umbrage is when, as has been quoted, that the volunteer sector is essential in maintaining traditional knowledge of sustainable land management - I firmly believe that this is actually diminishing the role of the local proffesionals in such land management and has such is eroding the industry. To this end if the industry was healthier as a whole then the industry itself could be at the forefront of leading a healthy volunteer, trainee scheme in their areas to the benefit of all, I think that was what I was trying to say initially but got a bit carried away. Good to hear from you by the way I hope all is going well for you.
• PRO

  Phil Voice July 15, 2009 at 9:20am

  "If there is ever to be a decent governing body or quango working for the landscape industry, one would hope they can tackle these issues head on and as such allow the industry to progress."
  
  A good post I have to agree. I am with George on volunteers but the greatest scourge of the landscape and gardening trade is with the black market which undermines the pricing structure and integrity of our profession.
  
  I am yet to see a discussion that originates from either BALI or the APL that sets out to tackle this (or indeed any) epidemic. Remove or at least discourage cash payments and we can build a solid foundation, pay better wages, make decent profits and invest in the industry as a whole.
  
  I would hazard a guess that anyone on this site who employs (or plans to employ) staff would commit greater resources to training and education if they felt secure in the knowledge that there is someone working for them in a support sense.
  
  I hear too much about the benefits of being associated to the APL or BALI but neither of these set out to tackle the problems at the core of our industry that are blocking many good men and women from starting, running and maintaining a good, creative and sound business.
  
  I would like to see less promotion of association members at horticulture shows and more about going out and giving free seminars to non-members or inviting young and flourishing businesses to visit them and their sites. A little mentoring can be a very healthy thing.
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  Sustainable Land Management July 15, 2009 at 1:09pm

  Hi Phil, I think I need to revise my thoughts re volunteers, having worked previously in the woodland management / countryside management field i think this is where the volunteer problem was actually a problem.
  
  I have only just really started to feel the pressures from a 'blackmarket' labour force, primarily with a good friend being totally usurped by a Cornish Nursery, who have simply mimicked his whole business and are completely unqualified, (until recently they were property developers - surprise surprise) and are actually selling trees which are not 'true to type' and the worst frustration is that there is absolutely no one at all who can help to bear pressure on such people.
  Whilst I have stated before that my feelings re BALI APL etc.,. have to be constrained as we are not members and do not plan to operate in areas where belonging would assist, my temper is becoming increasingly tested with the apathy they seem to regard the industry as a whole. As a result I don't think any of these groups or similar are the way forward - the industry needs to be placed under one of the stronger quangos', (On the same front, there have been considerable conferences and attention towards the landscaping issues on a practical level with regards not just the olympic site, but the surrounding zones too 'The Gateway to Engalnd' - not one rep from BALI or APL at all and the powers that be had to stretch to dragging in students and friends who happen to be in the industry to fill in the gaps - absolutely shameful).
  What we have always found is that personal or corporate membership to a peripheral charitable organisation, (amateur or academic based) can often be more bountiful in this respect. It is cheaper for a start but can get one personally involved at a much higher level for lobbying - such groups as the LRG, ITF and the Arb Association.
  Personally on the mentoring side I think the LJN has to be the best vehicle out there - watching some of the assistance given to those that have asked for help is incredible and in a way humbling. Can you not apply for grant from somewhere?, you are surely due it.
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  Sustainable Land Management July 15, 2009 at 1:20pm

  Charitable status for the Landscape Network?. As such become the main lobby for the industry. Nice financial security too.
• PRO

  Phil Voice July 15, 2009 at 1:50pm

  I have sent this letter to the APL and BALI this afternoon as well as Hort Week and the Landscaper Magazine.
  
  http://www.landscapejuice.com/2009/07/apl-bali-landscaping-partners...
  
  I have published it here on LJN too:
  
  http://www.landscapejuicenetwork.com/xn/detail/2074886:BlogPost:476...
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  Sustainable Land Management July 15, 2009 at 2:12pm

  Brilliant letter, in light of recent activity it cannot be ignored - but considering the power LJN now has on the industry webwise it can probably be a better investment for a business than signing up to these groups - which is a real shame and in many respects you have given a very mild response in terms of the actual problems that have occurred. One cannot disrespect those members of BALI and APL, although from looking at the work these businesses have churned out one feels that they would easily have made accolades of themselves without the need for the membership. Although an award is always nice to have.
  I was quite serious about the Landscape Network - if a core group of businesses involved with the LJN paid an amount into a charity, which using this site was able to spread its wings geographically as well as of course across all disciplines, you would have the structure for the very organisation needed. As such Landscape Network would be recognised on all levels. This is something that many quangos have attempted to do but are restricted by their very nature and the fact remains that the private websites have pushed their attempts at network sites to pages 5 - 10 on the search engines. Its just an idea - but I would certainly help with relish.
  Lastly thanks for this, it is so good to finally air such opinions as the industry particularly in the more rural regions has been incredibly disjointed for so long.
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  dgeorgea July 16, 2009 at 8:25pm

  As you know I was involved in helping to set up a garden volunteer scheme. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending how you look at it, I got a paid job while it was still in its early stages. However one of the more exciting developments was a volunteer who had experience of cutting back trees through one of these paid holiday schemes - cannot remember the name. An issue we had not expected to meet through a voluntary program. I did speak to my line manager about them and stressed that they would need the appropriate certificates and safety training prior to using them for this. I must admit I was somewhat concerned about this, while excited at the same time. I never found out if he did have the appropriate training and certificates.
  
  So I would agree with your argument, if someone who has been closely supervised while volunteering then believes it qualifies them to go solo, even on a voluntary basis. Primarily for their own safety, let alone all the other considerations.
  
  I know one thing that the organisers really wanted was experienced gardeners to help initially with setting up the relationship between garden owner and volunteer, in respect of agreeing what the owner wants from their garden, what would be practical for the garden and the volunteer, and coming up with a work scheme that all were happy with.
  
  I know some of the best voluntary schemes are ones where there is an experienced gardener involved as one of the volunteers, or in offering advice, so your arguments were not totally without merit.
  
  As for the paid job, I am absolutely loving it. Finding that the transition from volunteer to paid worker is a lot wider than I thought. The person training me is a volunteer, but used to work as a manager in a community group. She is fantastic, very patient, but has high expectations of me and expects me to meet them. So far I have managed to exceed her expectations.
  
  I had to do a report for the maintenance sub committee meeting and they were delighted with it, much better than any they have had from 'professionals'. I think as long as I try to be the type of manager I want for my estate, and don't make too many blunders things will work out well.
  
  As much as I love my voluntary work, it is hard to describe how much better it feels being employed and helping to pay my own way. It has also helped in dealing with my back problems, and has made the latest flare up much easier to cope with.