The question of Sustainability

I know its the year of bio-diversity but the question of Sustainability has been nagging at me recently and with articles on Landscape juice such as the 'acute oak decline disease' and the recent forum post on permeable paving I thought I would investigate my thoughts further.I have just completed a project using new oak sleepers, this is what started it all, until this time I believed oak to be a sustainable resource but the article on the oak disease has made me rethink this notion. An oak tree takes 30 years to become useful as frame timber and it takes 120 years to reach its peak, so does this really fit with the description of sustainability.Brundtland (1987): Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the needs of future generations to meet their own needs. (http://www.ecifm.rdg.ac.uk/definitions.htm university of reading)Even if we are planting Oak to replace the harvested they will not be ready for several generations to come.So does this mean there are different levels of sustainability for example:Short term: plants and shrubs and recycles products such as composite deckMedium term: Pine and other quick growing treesLong term: aggregates, sand and slow growing treesAfter all even gravel will be replaced but it takes millions of years for the mountains to erode. So what does this mean for garden designers and landscapers. Well I try to be sustainable but can I really claim to be if you apply the rule of meeting future generations? How important is it to the industry and the people who work in it?No I don't think this has answered any questions other than maybe we should be rethinking the uses of any product that falls under the long term sustainable category as our future generations cannot benefit from them. Not being an expert any input from others would be appreciated.

Sustainability has become an abused word. For example even tourism and fashion have been incorporating the word into publicity yet there is absolutely no way these industries can ever be truly sustainable. I personally feel that the sustainable issue for designers and landscape practitioners is based principally around the supply of materials. The garden therafter can be and should be completely sustainable and more so than the true meaning of the word as per Brundtland.

Where I live there is an outfit supplying high grade Douglas Fir cut to any desired size. The forest from which the timber comes from is behind the mill. You can actually choose the living specimen. This is very sustainable, but yet there is no publicity in this regard at all and no FSC stamp or similar. In the absence of an ideal situation like that it is vital for all landscapers to be able to trace the timber - knowing the FSC scheme; to be able to put that stamp on the timber requires considerable research to determine sustainability of the source.

Oak is coppiceable and can come from a reliable sustainable source. And quarrying whilst not sustainable allows for a permanence of a material base. Permeable surfacing is without a doubt the closest system to a sustainable surface that can be achieved to suit modern demands.

We and future generations will always suffer from the inventions of just before our time, in particular those products that use crude oil as the base material, but given the new climate and determination of companies to ensure their products are truly sustainable, maybe the future generations will be able to look at our time as the beginning of the time when the true sustainability of manufacturing began.

"Plus it doesn't matter if we all know plants are better value. I'd make the point of this to the customer but if they want trough grown at the extra cost that's their choice I'd just do it"

"I've done 5ft Thorne troughs. Very easy to plant just got a mini digger dug the trench then drop them in couldn't be easier however £250 per m does seem expensive. "

Thought I'd sign up to this forum. And I hope I'm allowed to post stuff for sale on here as this will be a one off? I have for sale a tiny pro robot, it's not the new edition but it's the bigger one of the two. If anyone is interested then please…

Comments

Pip Howard June 12, 2010 at 7:37pm

Sustainability has become an abused word. For example even tourism and fashion have been incorporating the word into publicity yet there is absolutely no way these industries can ever be truly sustainable. I personally feel that the sustainable issue for designers and landscape practitioners is based principally around the supply of materials. The garden therafter can be and should be completely sustainable and more so than the true meaning of the word as per Brundtland.

Where I live there is an outfit supplying high grade Douglas Fir cut to any desired size. The forest from which the timber comes from is behind the mill. You can actually choose the living specimen. This is very sustainable, but yet there is no publicity in this regard at all and no FSC stamp or similar. In the absence of an ideal situation like that it is vital for all landscapers to be able to trace the timber - knowing the FSC scheme; to be able to put that stamp on the timber requires considerable research to determine sustainability of the source.

Oak is coppiceable and can come from a reliable sustainable source. And quarrying whilst not sustainable allows for a permanence of a material base. Permeable surfacing is without a doubt the closest system to a sustainable surface that can be achieved to suit modern demands.

We and future generations will always suffer from the inventions of just before our time, in particular those products that use crude oil as the base material, but given the new climate and determination of companies to ensure their products are truly sustainable, maybe the future generations will be able to look at our time as the beginning of the time when the true sustainability of manufacturing began.
Shadow Hall June 12, 2010 at 9:06pm

Thank you Pip for that answer its nice to have the educated opinion of someone as experienced as yourself. It would be nice to think that our time will be remembered in this light . I suppose I was just begining to lose heart that my efforts in this area where not enough but at least I am trying and having an influence in the gardens I build.
I wish we had such a mill around here although if I had to pick a specimen I think I might end up not using the timber as I would find it a bit like picking your lobster before its carted off to be cooked, the guilt might be just to much :)
Pip Howard June 12, 2010 at 9:51pm

I know what you what you mean about the choosing the tree - there is a great piece in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy books by Douglas Adams, at the restaurant at the end of the universe where the cow introduces himself and tells them which bit of him is the best to eat!?!

However connecting with the natural world is an important part of the realisation of sustainability - unfortunately people need to be able to home and enjoy certain comforts and knowing what can be used without destruction of resources can be difficult after people have had the luxury of having it gift wrapped and presented to them. Some companies are well on the route to providing the products which deliver both but it is so difficult to tell those apart from the huge amount of greenwash bulls**t that is out there. But there are some really useful guys out there who can help - Common Ground , Groundwork Trust amongst others including Nick Mann of Habitat Aid (an LJN member) exist to help practitioners and the general public.

I really belief that our industry is at the forefront of how sustainability can be achieved and heightened more than any other.
PRO

Lara Hurley June 15, 2010 at 12:35pm

The answer lies in making sustainable things desirable; changing the image of green until it is the 'new black' and making sustainable things affordable to the masses. Currently anything 'green' comes at a price that many can't afford so they revert to the less sustainable option.
Our industry seems divided - there are many die-hard folks out there unwilling to change to more sustainable practices and other that embrace it.
Pip Howard June 18, 2010 at 5:04pm

Hi lara, I'm afraid I have to disagree - sustainability has been kidnapped as a 'buzzword' to encompass so much more than it actually is. The whole debate re climate change and improving on our relationship with the environment as a whole is not what sustainable practice is all about. In fact sustainable practice habitually is the cheapest option by far and often actually free.

I am lucky to be involved in the development of a product to assist in bringing sustainable gardening into the Paris metropolitan area and in doing so the biggest issue is the pricing - it appears (and this is true also in the UK) that in order to allow for the potential customer base to accept the product the research shows that the prices have to be upped in order to appeal at all!

I also don't believe that the landscaping industry is divided on this issue, whilst it is on most other issues sustainable practice is the norm for many. There are certainly many practitioners who would advocate products that are far from sustainable but the manufacturers have been pivotal in ensuring that the products meet with standards (often self regulated) in order to match with the sustainable image the industry has and will continue to have. The problem comes in advertising these facts directly to a customer and again it is necessary to up the prices to encourage the desirability. The empowerment and consequent recognition of the professionalism contained within the industry as a whole is the sole method of allowing the sustainable issue to be introduced - albeit often without any reference to sustainability.
Shadow Hall June 18, 2010 at 6:30pm

Thanks Pip for those links I will have to explore them further.
Laura I used to be of the same opinion until I started working in this field and making a conserted effort to introduce sustainable products and practise into my work. My experience now is that the prices of new sustainable products are comparable to their quality counterparts. Unlike organic food this type of consumer product is encoraged by large manufacturers and therefor more people buy and the price goes down.
The landscape industry is the obvious leader in improving sustainablility due to the nature (scuse the pun) of the work although having said that I have come accross several companies uwilling to change the products they use but these have been pavers or builders who have always used these products and I doubt they have had the exposure to or influence of a network such as this to enable education in current practises.
I am curious about your product Pip and when its not so hush hush would love to hear more.
Shadow Hall June 18, 2010 at 6:34pm

Oh and I have to hold my hands up and say that I had no idea that you could coppice oak how amazing will have to look into this further.