Looking for advice

I am chair of a tenant management organisation and our gardener is retiring later this year. So we will be looking for a new gardener, I am trying to get an idea of the type of person we need to look for, and perhaps some indication of pay.Not wishing to put the present gardener down, and only to give an indication of the current situation, he has been the gardener for at least 10 years and was taken on by an old co-operative because he was married to the administrator. Sadly no real investment was put into him either in terms of knowledge or skills, the last few years he has numerous health problems, the latest being meningitis - which he has recovered from fairly well. As a result when we've consulted with trained gardeners for regeneration ideas it usually takes them a few moments to comment on his lack of knowledge. As an example of the regeneration side, we will be spending £40000+ this year developing two of our grassed areas.Though a small estate (169 homes) we have a range of grassed areas, flower beds, and raised flower beds. We have nearly as many trees as we have homes. For the right person I believe we offer a unique opportunity to make their mark on our estate and to improve the quality of the grounds for all and to take an active part in the community.The person will need to be responsible for planning, development and maintenance of the grass/flower areas. They will work with the management board on regeneration of these areas, and will develop and run gardening projects with the community - so a crb check will be required. We have a small staff of five, 3 full time and 2 part time, so the ability to work on their own and reporting back as necessary to the estate manager is essential.Despite what I have put above one of the options I am keen on exploring is taking on someone newly trained. We recently used a contracting company, and while they were not the cheapest the deal breaker was that they train local people as gardeners, and while not the norm we were able to insist they used trainees on the job to give them real life experience. Having spoken to one of the directors if we wish to take on someone newly trained they would be more then happy to work with us by providing ongoing support and training to the person. As one of the first things I did was to take the decision of whether or not staff receive training away from the board and onto the estate manager development and training of all staff now has a higher priority, I am happy that the right person will continue to grow and develop as a gardener. It may mean of course that some of our ambitions will need to wait until they are ready.An obvious concern is that we would be asking too much too soon, though of course we would work with the training company to try and avoid this. Also it has been agreed if we do take on someone newly trained they will start after the current gardener has finished.Or we go with a more experienced and better trained gardener. If so what sort of qualifications should we be looking for, experience and type of experience?We do need to make a decision soon, while the gardener is retiring in September if we do take on someone newly trained we will need to let the company know soon so they can start identifying the right person for us.Any comments or questions to clarify things would be appreciated.

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your reply. From what you said, and what we are expecting the source I was thinking about may not be the best one for us. At least I've managed to suss that one out early on - thanks.

While we are not adverse to using contractors, and I would certainly prefer to use a good one rather than rushing in and not getting what we want, my own preference is to take on a full time gardener. My experience so far is that they will come in every so often, go through the estate and move on. I would rather take on someone who wants to 'take ownership' of their work and pride in constantly improving the look of the estate.

Also as mentioned we would want someone who is willing to set up and run 'gardening' clubs as part of their work. To explain this a bit more, about a third of our homes are designated as older people dwellings, of which 1/3 have a small piece of space they can use to grow their own plants. The rest have balconies. We have around 13 houses with back gardens, the rest 1/2 have gardens and 1/2 have private balconies. Gardening, and related topics, is one of the key areas we have identified which offers real potential for developin community cohesion. It is ideal because it cuts across the generation gaps, social and cultural differences. It is hoped it will also become part of our callendar for seasonal activities - ie getting children to grow plants for mothers day, rather then just picking the flowers from the flower beds.

One of this years development is a family/community garden, my aim is for this area to be tended primarily by the residents with the gardener supervising it. This will include growing herbs and other plants. In part this is one of the key reasons we will be looking for qualifications.

Replies

Mark January 16, 2009 at 6:49pm

Only my two pence worth but as valid and respected as training may be qualifications may not alone get you the can do will do hard working individual that it seems you require. I'm not down grading the requirement for sound knowledge but hard grafting folk that can cover some ground don't plod about and work in nearly all weathers are worth their weight in gold !!

That would be top of my list.

Good luck with getting the right person
Classic Gardens January 16, 2009 at 7:18pm

I myself put in a good 5 yrs at horticultural collage with qualifications ranging from aerial tree rescue to seed/cuttings and turf management.

Regarding Marks post yes obviously the need for a hard working person should be at the top of the list but, Would that person know the soil PH level and what plants are needed or use the correct fetilizers at the right time of year not just buy a bag of evergreen extra and be done with it.

My advise would be to find a contractor ask to see qualifications, references and how long they have been in busines.
Why not ask at your local horticultural they might know the right people for the job.
dgeorgea January 16, 2009 at 11:57pm

Mark,

Hard working is certainly going to be a requirement. At present we do not expect our current gardener to be out working if it is raining, but in part this is due to his age and health problems.

I'm not sure if I would expect someone to be out working while its raining, though we do provide the necessary clothing, but would expect them to use this time for planning, or doing something else useful. We did get rid of a greenhouse because it was not used, but could easily replace it.
steve loftus January 17, 2009 at 12:11am

you did not say your location,i would go down the contractor route,but then i would, they will have all the risk assessments,insurance,tools,experience, etc plus manpower,may i suggest going to vgcltd.com (voice grounds care ltd) just to see whats available.......everything really,based in hampshire.
dgeorgea January 17, 2009 at 12:29am

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your reply. From what you said, and what we are expecting the source I was thinking about may not be the best one for us. At least I've managed to suss that one out early on - thanks.

While we are not adverse to using contractors, and I would certainly prefer to use a good one rather than rushing in and not getting what we want, my own preference is to take on a full time gardener. My experience so far is that they will come in every so often, go through the estate and move on. I would rather take on someone who wants to 'take ownership' of their work and pride in constantly improving the look of the estate.

Also as mentioned we would want someone who is willing to set up and run 'gardening' clubs as part of their work. To explain this a bit more, about a third of our homes are designated as older people dwellings, of which 1/3 have a small piece of space they can use to grow their own plants. The rest have balconies. We have around 13 houses with back gardens, the rest 1/2 have gardens and 1/2 have private balconies. Gardening, and related topics, is one of the key areas we have identified which offers real potential for developin community cohesion. It is ideal because it cuts across the generation gaps, social and cultural differences. It is hoped it will also become part of our callendar for seasonal activities - ie getting children to grow plants for mothers day, rather then just picking the flowers from the flower beds.

One of this years development is a family/community garden, my aim is for this area to be tended primarily by the residents with the gardener supervising it. This will include growing herbs and other plants. In part this is one of the key reasons we will be looking for qualifications.
dgeorgea January 17, 2009 at 12:57am

Colin,

After the current gardener I would imagine anyone suggesting getting someone not qualified is going to be ignored. Without doubt we will need to invest heavily to start bringing our gardens and flower beds to an acceptable standard, but we want to go beyond that. One long term aim is to be a serious contender in the Southwark in Bloom competition.

I do realise I am setting high expectations, but as I said I do think we can offer a unique opportunity for the right person. Taking on someone newly qualified is of course an obvious option, especially as it means we won't be paying for experience, nor are we necessarily looking for perfection - so there is scope for making mistakes without it being too much of an issue, as long as we see improvements and mistakes are not repeated.

However we will also be looking at employing a more experienced gardener instead, since this would obviously speed things up and hopefully offers less chance of mistakes. Plus we can make having been involved in community gardening projects as a desirable part in the job spec.
dgeorgea January 17, 2009 at 1:56am

Pro Gard,

I don't doubt for a moment there are fantastic gardeners who don't have qualifications. Unfortunately due to the problems we have inherrited from previous poor employment decisions and practices there is currently no support in employing someone without qualifications of some kind.

The pay range is roughly what I was expecting.

It does lead nicely to a couple of issues we will be looking at:

1. pay. We have considered setting the pay at around £18000 - £19000 pa with a bonus element of another £1000 -£2000 pa. This would need to be well defined and paid on the following year. So first year would be the first sum, if bonus element is met then the second year the salary would be equivelant to £20 - 21000. Bonus would be tied in with things like time keeping/attendance and performance. It is one of the best ways I've found to date for us to pay a decent wage while dealing with fears of what would happen if we ended up with a lemon. A serious downside would be if the person was ill a lot one year the next would see their pay drop to the stated salary. This does concern me because I can see it acting as a possible demotivator, rather then motivate them back to optimum performance. Having said that I have always found pay to be a poor motivator compared to other benefits.

2. The current gardener is on the same hours all year round. As a result we get unproductive hours during the winter months when it is too dark for him to work. To me it would make sense for the new person to work less hours in the winter and more in the summer - so the average hours worked over the year is the same, with pay equalled out over 12 months. Does anyone have experience of this type of working pattern? Does it work well?
Mark January 17, 2009 at 10:17am

Regarding hours of work in the winter months....this can be catered for by starting earlier and finishing earlier, I can still get a full day in even with at the shortest day so long as I have a short break for lunch.

Working longer on the summer months is an option but to be honest 8hrs gardening is normally enough for most people and doing more once in a while is fine but would be draining (read unproductive) on a regular basis, as regards not working in the rain if we have a year like the last two you won't get any work done ;-)

Good luck with your quest
dgeorgea January 18, 2009 at 11:26pm

Thanks Mark,

I know Westminster Council used to do mixed hours like this, but obviously I had not thought it through.

Regarding rain, I should have said heavy to torrential.
dgeorgea January 18, 2009 at 11:44pm

Pro Gard,

I must admit I hadn't considered a six day week, and while it is an option I will suggest it is not one I would expect the board to agree to. Lone working staff is already an issue and to have just a single member in on a Saturday is likely to cause a lot of concern.

That said I have pointed out that this is the right time for us to consider other options to improve service delivery.