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Replies

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  Geoff Norfolk February 5, 2014 at 10:05am

  "papers" probably means a passport!!
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  Andrew Smith February 5, 2014 at 10:38am

  Doing a quick search on vacancies across the UK in general. They appear to be offering between 12-14k for nursery operatives on average. Which if you take the upper scale, is less than £60 a day. As crap as it is, this does indeed appear to be the norm.

  One of the vacancies was also stating PA1/6 as an essential!

  When I took voluntary redundancy last year, I was under no illusion that this industry is undervalued. And having paid out £380 for my PA1/6 last year, Over £2000 to complete all my RHS L2 modules and exams, and looking at spending more on my chainsaw ticket later this year, it does stick in my throat a bit! And that's not including all my equipmemnt.

  Last year, I was asked by the guy who did my website, if I could look into re-designing his garden (I'm also doing a open learning design course). I met with his wife to obtain an initial client brief for no charge, put forward a design proposal at a very reasonable price, as in my thinking it was one of my first opportunities to do a real design I could add to my portfolio.

  I was told that it was too costly, which if you compare to what her husband charged me for knocking up a website, probably from a template, was very good value considering the research and time it would take to produce a design from concept to master plan.

  I think the problem with the horticultural trade in general, is that people think because you are doing something you enjoy, you don't mind doing it for free. Unfortunately free does not pay the bills.

  I think we may have to say no to these low paid offers, but I guess we are guilty of having to accept low paid jobs when entering the industry, or starting up, or in quieter times, and this just perpetuates the problem.

  The biggest threat where I live, is that there is plenty of fly by night merchants who are doing regular maintenance rounds for cash in hand, They don't stick around for long because of reputation or other, but in the short term, do take business away from people who do a good job at the right price, worthy of their experience and quality of work. (Two examples: I saw one gardener who appears to have been very busy last year, when asked, cut the top of a Prunus laurocerasus part hedge, with an upturned strimmer, it looked like it had been shot with a shotgun! Another, was paid for trimming 40 m of Beech hedging and never returned. The latter is now my customer)

  Sorry to ramble and go off subject slightly. But your right, it is another example of de-valuing the trade.
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  Derek Conway February 5, 2014 at 12:12pm

  If you were an employee maybe, but self employed on 60 a day - no chance. Point the van in the opposite direction and drive........
• PRO

  Seth Burgess February 5, 2014 at 12:51pm

  A lot of people seem to see that if you work outside it's because you're not intelligent enough to work indoors and thus don't earn much money. Especially I feel this coming from people when I price for fencing, the impression I get that's it's just dig a few holes throw some posts in and then check the panels in between or screw the rails on and bash on the boards. Which in some ways is it, much the same way heart surgery is just slice slice slice at someone's body.
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  Andrew Smith February 5, 2014 at 1:17pm

  
  
  Seth Burgess said:

  A lot of people seem to see that if you work outside it's because you're not intelligent enough to work indoors and thus don't earn much money. Especially I feel this coming from people when I price for fencing, the impression I get that's it's just dig a few holes throw some posts in and then check the panels in between or screw the rails on and bash on the boards. Which in some ways is it, much the same way heart surgery is just slice slice slice at someone's body.

  Thats so true! Just seen a lead on freeindex for fencing that basically said. ' All that is needed is to dig 8 holes, put posts in, and fill with concrete, i'll supply everything'. Makes it sound like riding a bike for the first time, point the bike in one direction, pedal and away you go. Easy, well yes it is, until youve fell off 50 times first!
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  Colin Hunt February 5, 2014 at 2:02pm

  A local Grammar School is advertising for a head Groundsperson at £15,189 - £16,214, so £60.00 per day would seem about right, providing it is a full time job.
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  Paul McNulty February 5, 2014 at 3:20pm

  Bear in mind that being employed has perks. Everything from holiday and sick pay, to a pension scheme at least. £15K per year doesn't sound unlikely, even in the south-east, as there's plenty of other jobs that pay around that amount.

  Geoff, that reply was brilliant!
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  Mulberry February 5, 2014 at 4:54pm

  Ha,ha, ramble on Andrew,ramble on.That's exactly how I felt when I put the post up! It turns out they have a Lady going in for a couple of hours per week now...!
  
  Andrew Smith said:

  Doing a quick search on vacancies across the UK in general. They appear to be offering between 12-14k for nursery operatives on average. Which if you take the upper scale, is less than £60 a day. As crap as it is, this does indeed appear to be the norm.

  One of the vacancies was also stating PA1/6 as an essential!

  When I took voluntary redundancy last year, I was under no illusion that this industry is undervalued. And having paid out £380 for my PA1/6 last year, Over £2000 to complete all my RHS L2 modules and exams, and looking at spending more on my chainsaw ticket later this year, it does stick in my throat a bit! And that's not including all my equipmemnt.

  Last year, I was asked by the guy who did my website, if I could look into re-designing his garden (I'm also doing a open learning design course). I met with his wife to obtain an initial client brief for no charge, put forward a design proposal at a very reasonable price, as in my thinking it was one of my first opportunities to do a real design I could add to my portfolio.

  I was told that it was too costly, which if you compare to what her husband charged me for knocking up a website, probably from a template, was very good value considering the research and time it would take to produce a design from concept to master plan.

  I think the problem with the horticultural trade in general, is that people think because you are doing something you enjoy, you don't mind doing it for free. Unfortunately free does not pay the bills.

  I think we may have to say no to these low paid offers, but I guess we are guilty of having to accept low paid jobs when entering the industry, or starting up, or in quieter times, and this just perpetuates the problem.

  The biggest threat where I live, is that there is plenty of fly by night merchants who are doing regular maintenance rounds for cash in hand, They don't stick around for long because of reputation or other, but in the short term, do take business away from people who do a good job at the right price, worthy of their experience and quality of work. (Two examples: I saw one gardener who appears to have been very busy last year, when asked, cut the top of a Prunus laurocerasus part hedge, with an upturned strimmer, it looked like it had been shot with a shotgun! Another, was paid for trimming 40 m of Beech hedging and never returned. The latter is now my customer)

  Sorry to ramble and go off subject slightly. But your right, it is another example of de-valuing the trade.
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  David Cox February 5, 2014 at 9:17pm

  I start work at 8.30 - If I havent made that by 12, Im packing up and leaving the industry - alas you will always find people who want skill and dont want to pay for it - Leave them be, their are plenty of decent customers who pay a fair price, as we all know.
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  Peter February 8, 2014 at 10:37am

  Agree with Seth's comment.