A news item in British Wildlife (April 2012) highlighted growing concern with the over use of glyphosate. Documented impacts included;
• glyphosate resistant weeds
• a build of of pathogens such as fusarium
• entire groups of organisms that don’t exist in the soil anymore
• glyphosate accumulating in the soil.
The presentation of this information given to the UK All Party Parliamentary Group on Agroecology can be found here;
http://agroecologygroup.org.uk/index.php/events/previous-meetings/2011-11-01/
I’ve just been using round up to clear some beds of ground elder, and now am wondering about the long term impacts. Also some of the lawns I look after that have a longer history of herbicide use, which destroys soils biodiversity and therefore organic matter, appear to suffer more from fungal pathogens (fusarium, red thread). Time for a completely different approach maybe?
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- Predominatly US Centric, with EU counter reports 'dismissed' - rightly or wrongly ?
- centred around effects seen on genetically modified (GM) crops - therefore not a situation we yet encounter ?
- is the GM connection understated ?
- is the professor independent ?
- what is the background this report & who / how is it funded
I agree we should always look for the solution with the least short - medium - long term impact on environment & business but being old, I'm a natural cynic and don't always believe what I read unless it''s in the Daily Mail ;-)
There's some great threads on LJN at the moment - fantastic.
Re the fusarium issue this is research funded by the USDA and has been proven in many other countries also on a range of crops. Fairly sound science.
But I agree wholeheartedly with Gary about erring on the side of caution - for example this very important study http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d7505c99d17f8deba775cfcea/files/Gly_in... from last year proved that in some cases glyphosate enters and remains in groundwater. However to leap from this research which clearly calls for more research to some of the headlines such as 'Monsanto's Carcinogenic Roundup Herbicide Contaminating Water Supply' is a step too far and in my opinion prevents a solution being found and sways funding away from real science into the pockets of professional campaigners.
Personally I think, until we get the research application should only be carried out by professionals who will know when and where it should be used safely. But this cuts off the market direct to the public.
Not directly relevant to this thread but today i visited a garden that i maintain every fortnight. Along the back of one border the plants were showing classic symptoms of herbicide drift. There is ivy running up the fence behind it and it is my guess that a neighbour has sprayed the ivy growing through to their side of the fence with weed killer. However, the numpty who did this has sprayed over the top of the fence and damaged a lot of the plants in my clients garden.
I have pointed out the damage to my client and she was not too pleased. I expect the air to turn blue tonight.
I used a glyphosate pen on a tiny bit of knotweed recently but apart from on a small area of block paving we have used no pesticides for many years - we're gardeners not farmers – we all have intuition – and our jobs (customers) are just not that important - ours are nearly all contract commercial work and I'm happy to spend twenty minutes squashing aphids or a few lilly beetles – (having once waited three years for some lillies from seed to flower)
I've constantly heard bad press about Round Up and when you read that Monsanto have 'acquired' an international firm that's dedicated to restoring bee health and protecting the future of honey bee pollination (link) – you do kind of wonder what's happening
For years and years all I had were newspaper, books and TV which I always knew to be scripted, ie, edited, that is; censored. - But now I've got the internet I'm more confused than ever and how come I never heard of James Lovelock till just now?
you want to load that again Gary - can't see your Q... (have to say the picture of Sid is a little disconcerting;)
Top man, Old Sid :-)
mmhhh don't under what's happening to my replies, anyway here goes again;
Just out of curiosity, if you do commercial contract work, how do you handle weeds etc in business park & ind estates if not using Pesticides? Do you find you able to charge for the extra 'manual' time in dealing with them ? If so, what method do you adopt - hands & knees ?
Or by commercial do you mean residential gardens under contract ?
Residential gardens under contract, yes Gary. So commercial contract work is business parks and industrial estates?
We did have what was a once neglected carpark on the grounds of an old vicarage until about 18 months ago – we were getting it looking nice and people were coming in to sit and have a picnic – we went every second Sunday and invoiced at the end of each month 
– that meant just occasionally we got three second Sundays inside a month – it had happened at least twice before but this time we got the push and he got a big company in who installed a pay and display system and promptly let the place go
All our gardens except one are a full days work and we don't have any problems except with those block pavers where I'm happy to use a little weedkiller – when we go on site I like to think I know what's going on at every corner of it (pretty much :-) and where to prioritise – I don't expect weedkillers are any quicker although I concede that I'll be doing them again in a fortnight but that's what the job is. I never liked being at more than one garden a day
Our biggest lawn takes us six hours to cut with a 22” mower – how much would that cost to treat each year? - but if I'm honest the main reason I don't use herbicides is I resent being told I can't do it without paying £500 up front – and I can see a lot of folk who have a licence and now think they're responsible professionals.
Time for gardening without any chemicals...
amen
Generally, yes. The term commercial landscape maintenance/grounds care is typically used to describe companies or individuals who look after large areas for commercial property companies as opposed to residential properties. The only cross-over I can think of is our HOA's.
I applaud the idealistic comments and we try to limit our use, but the reality of it means you can not maintain large business parks, industrial estates etc with such 'help'.
Having done resi work, that is an area where you can look for alternatives or organic approach, especially if the resident buys into it.
Also, you wouldn't use glyhosate (the thread subject matter) on a lawn unless you were intending to kill it!! Commercially, very few lawns are treated for lawn weeds en masse. You may spot spray with a selctive to achieve the 80/20 rule.
My question was aimed at understanding how you maintain 'hardscapes' - paying, kerbs, front of beds, fence & building lines etc in case I was missing a good trick :-)
Your last paragraph is interesting, its more to do with the polictics of licensing than anything else.?
The comment about licensed professionals is unfair - We take our responsibility seriously, hence why we have invested in training, equipment etc. I quite understand it may not be for you...but don't create an 'us' and 'them' scenario. The industry is already fragmented without further in-fighting.....
For the record, our guys are correctly trained and licensed. We look to use the route of least danger to the environment and ourselves. Where a Method Statement calls for pesticide application, we will select (because of out training and BASIS advice ) the safest and most effective product, applied with skill using the right equipment and using Duty of Care.
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