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  Maia Sautelet March 31, 2015 at 10:22pm

  Hi Myles,

  I'm new here...there isn't really a template for a contract, although it would be helpful if there was, but a good start would be to contact the SGD, Society of Garden Designers on www.sgd.org.uk. I joined the society a few months ago. Each independent designers have their own terms and conditions, but the society would have guidelines. I have worked as a gardener and garden designer for different companies and the T&Cs vary each time.
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    Myles jennings > Maia Sautelet April 1, 2015 at 9:37pm

    Thank you Maia, thats brilliant. I hadn't realised how much the society offers. I will sign up for the student membership now.
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  Barry John Chambers April 6, 2015 at 10:03am

  The SGD do have a set of contracts such as you are describing. I think it was £20 to buy them. I thought they were very brief and ultimately of course a great deal rests on writing a good specification. In fact having bought them I didn't use them but on a larger job or with a less readable client I would. This can be off putting for both clients and contractors though.
  
  The most difficult thing is to manage your relationship with clients and contractors and schools of thought vary a great deal on this.
  
  Barry Chambers MSGD
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  Gary RK April 6, 2015 at 10:13am

  The reality seems to be (click to see)  very few GD's and SGD members use them (for Domestic projects) ?

  Such focus & effort is placed upon them by the SGD. So, why are they not used more commonly - are they fit for purpose, just not needed or are we relying on 'handshakes' ?
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    Barry John Chambers > Gary RK April 6, 2015 at 10:23am

    Firstly the documents were too basic but then also perhaps not as plain English as they could be. Secondly much of what is there is implicit in letters, invoices and other T's and C's. Thirdly the reality is all about people and however much you push legal documents you need to deal with the people and make the best of it. It will be very rare to end up relying on legal documents which the law will in any case, take it's own views on.
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      Gary RK > Barry John Chambers April 6, 2015 at 10:30am

      So, arewe saying they're not fit for purpose ? The SGD spend considerable effort on these as part of their offering.

      Contracts are 'never' needed unless there are issues, non-peformance, non-payment etc but by then it is to late.

      I do not know of many industries where quite major financial outlay is committed to by both parties without the backup of a formal contract.
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      Myles jennings > Barry John Chambers April 6, 2015 at 10:31am

      So I suppose in most cases in the real world, as long as there is written agreement that everyone is happy with the design/specs and the timings agreed by the designer and contractors as far as stages of completion.that is the main thing.
      Then after that,any changes or issues are just dealt with along the way
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        Gary RK > Myles jennings April 6, 2015 at 10:39am

        But are those agreements thus considered 'informal'.. and where would the law stand in case of a dispute ?

        Both the contractor & clients want their backs covered in case of a dispute.

        Whose contracts can provide that ? 

        I understood the SGD was very strong at 'recommending' its members to use these contracts ?

        I guess I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here....
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          Barry John Chambers > Gary RK April 6, 2015 at 10:56am

          I would not knock using the contracts but there is a lot to fill in and so it seems better to form your own if you can.
          
          A major reason why they are not much used is that the designer is not working as an independent third party consultant but in fact handling all the money and therefore is the main contractor. That is so that they really have control. Unfortunately if you rely on your clients to withhold payment when there are problems you are like a dog with no teeth. Like I say it's all about managing people relationships. Many designers want to keep their clients away from their contractors and even more contractors want to 'adjust' the design without consulting the designer. Hence holding the purse strings can work better for the designer even though the responsibilies are much higher. It can work better and therefore have less problems.
          
          I use the SGD best practice model of being third party consultant. I don't feel I have enough control of the contractors, one of them was seriously threatening last year. I want more truly professional contractors but there are lots of smaller jobs around and being Design and Build looks far easier to make headway for now. Difficult choice.
          
          Barry
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            Gary RK > Barry John Chambers April 6, 2015 at 11:07am

            I'm not knocking the SGD contracts, just like many trying to understand where & when they are used.

            You also bring on other major issues;

            - the Designer Vs Contractor debate :) It's a dangerous path to go down implying only 'truly professional contractors'.... many can regail stories of 'poor' designers and contractors. It is often is not obvious until the contract is underway on both sides (hence formal contract needed).

            - the Design & Build contractor. Some clients prefer this option. It removes many of the conflicts.

            Where do people stand on 'fees' from Contractors to Designers to secure work ?